Clarion Open

[NM1965]

This is probably a dumb question, but why do so many early season tourneys have stupid brackets like Clarion? The winner of consolations finishes 5th and the losers from the semifinals battle for 3rd? Dumb. I think  I'd prefer a repechage to that.  Why don't they just go double elimination? 

Also about Clarion, I think it's insane that Bassett dominated everybody he wrestled. Yeah, weak tournament, but if I was a college wrestler I'd be super embarrassed to lose to a HS Jr, and yeah, I know Bassett is over the top good. 

Edited November 5, 2025 by NM1965

[Winners Circle]

11 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

This is probably a dumb question, but why do so many early season tourneys have stupid brackets like Clarion? The winner of consolations finishes 5th and the losers from the semifinals battle for 3rd? Dumb. I think  I'd prefer a repechage to that.  Why don't they just go double elimination? 

Also about Clarion, I think it's insane that Bassett dominated everybody he wrestled. Yeah, weak tournament, but if I was a college wrestler I'd be super embarrassed to lose to a HS Jr, and yeah, I know Bassett is over the top good. 

There's a 6-match limit athletes can have in a day. So they eliminate a round by not having a consolation semifinals. 

Also, isn't Bassett a senior? I'm not being sarcastic, because I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow reclassified to be a 19 y/o junior. 

[BAC]

4 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

This is probably a dumb question, but why do so many early season tourneys have stupid brackets like Clarion? The winner of consolations finishes 5th and the losers from the semifinals battle for 3rd? Dumb. I think  I'd prefer a repechage to that.  Why don't they just go double elimination? 

Also about Clarion, I think it's insane that Bassett dominated everybody he wrestled. Yeah, weak tournament, but if I was a college wrestler I'd be super embarrassed to lose to a HS Jr, and yeah, I know Bassett is over the top good. 

It may be a dumb question but it's one I've wondered about too.  My theory is that it saves time in a single-day tournament where there's already a risk it might run too late into the day/evening.

If that's an unsatisfying answer, consider that the time savings isn't merely from cutting out the time it takes to wrestle the consolation semifinals.  It's cutting out an entire session/phase. 

Think about it.  With full wrestlebacks, the losing semifinalists have 2 more matches.  That means they need a mandatory break, then consy semis, then another mandatory break, then consy finals. Two sessions.  If you cut out that phase, then after finals, there's only one session left:  the finals, the 3/4 match, and the 5/6 match (since the consy semifinals can now take place at the same time as the semis).  That means you're cutting out at least a full hour (probably more) from the end of semis to the end of the tournament -- no matter how many mats you have.

In a single-day tournament where you're running everything continuously, just trying to get all the matches squeezed in, saving that extra phase post-semis can be a big deal.  In fact that time-saver can also be used to enable a greater number of tournament entrants, so there's actually more wrestling overall.

 

[NM1965]

1 minute ago, Winners Circle said:

There's a 6-match limit athletes can have in a day. So they eliminate a round by not having a consolation semifinals. 

Also, isn't Bassett a senior? I'm not being sarcastic, because I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow reclassified to be a 19 y/o junior. 

Oh, I had no idea there was a match limit per day!! 

Bassett probably is a Sr, my bad. 

[NM1965]

1 minute ago, BAC said:

It may be a dumb question but it's one I've wondered about too.  My theory is that it saves time in a single-day tournament where there's already a risk it might run too late into the day/evening.

If that's an unsatisfying answer, consider that the time savings isn't merely from cutting out the time it takes to wrestle the consolation semifinals.  It's cutting out an entire session/phase. 

Think about it.  With full wrestlebacks, the losing semifinalists have 2 more matches.  That means they need a mandatory break, then consy semis, then another mandatory break, then consy finals. Two sessions.  If you cut out that phase, then after finals, there's only one session left:  the finals, the 3/4 match, and the 5/6 match (since the consy semifinals can now take place at the same time as the semis).  That means you're cutting out at least a full hour (probably more) from the end of semis to the end of the tournament -- no matter how many mats you have.

In a single-day tournament where you're running everything continuously, just trying to get all the matches squeezed in, saving that extra phase post-semis can be a big deal.  In fact that time-saver can also be used to enable a greater number of tournament entrants, so there's actually more wrestling overall.

 

I got a great answer from Winner's Circle, thanks! 

[Winners Circle]

3 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Oh, I had no idea there was a match limit per day!! 

Bassett probably is a Sr, my bad. 

Yea. Which is why you see "NC" (No Contest) on some of the matches later in the day. Because the loser of a "NC" has already reached their match limit. For example, at #149 at the Clarion Open, Zac Cowan had "NC" wins over Maddox Shaw in the consi of 4 and Jackson Butler in the 5th place match. Because Shaw and Butler had both already reached their limit.

Edited November 5, 2025 by Winners Circle

[NM1965]

6 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Yea. Which is why you see "NC" (No Contest) on some of the matches later in the day. Because the loser of a "NC" has already reached their match limit. For example, at #149 at the Clarion Open, Zac Cowan had "NC" wins over Maddox Shaw in the consi of 4 and Jackson Butler in the 5th place match. Because Shaw and Butler had both already reached their limit.

That's crazy. I had no idea about these things in single day tournaments. 

[BAC]

42 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

There's a 6-match limit athletes can have in a day. So they eliminate a round by not having a consolation semifinals. 

Also, isn't Bassett a senior? I'm not being sarcastic, because I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow reclassified to be a 19 y/o junior. 

You said what I said with about 10 fewer sentences. Thx.  Yes, Bassett's a senior. 

[MPhillips]

48 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I had no idea about these things in single day tournaments. 

It's a cornucopia of information here. Some of it is even correct...

[Winners Circle]

35 minutes ago, BAC said:

You said what I said with about 10 fewer sentences. Thx.  Yes, Bassett's a senior. 

One Bob Dole for you.

[okokzach]

17 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

It's a cornucopia of information here. Some of it is even correct...