Shut Down Optics

[mspart]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

Wasn’t it predicted to make shit more expensive ?   Right before they voted on it in the middle of the night without reading it?

Maybe if they had read it before they passed it to find out what was in it, they would have found the fatal flaws.  

mspart

[mspart]

30 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Ok so it was predicted to make it more expensive….. on the promise of making it cheaper. 
 

is this the twilight zone or do politics and politicians suck ?

also wasn’t it supposed that the super poor are super unhealthy because of no health care.  That I I pay it for them via awesomeness then they would be super healthy and less of a burden on the health care system in the long run.  Over time that would make it super awesome and cheaper for everyone.
 

But.  Like everything the government touches.   That was all a lie.  They knew that.  We knew that but we keep on truckin.  
 

What a long strange trip it’s been boss.  

I see what you did there!!!

mspart

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, mspart said:

Maybe if they had read it before they passed it to find out what was in it, they would have found the fatal flaws.  

mspart

It is Abhorrent how these bills sometimes pass.    50,000 page bills with 2 seconds to read and votes in the middle of the night.    
 

Bundling x (a good idea) with b (a shit idea that conforms to my political parties norms)…..    then publically bashing your opponent for not voting for x the good thing.    
 

This type of shit shouldn’t be normal.   House / senators  should have ample time to review what they are signing.   It’s the twilight zone how some of this is just normal and we just keep on pretending they really care about us peoples.   
 

in corporate America calling someone a politician is a pretty big insult.   And the politicians earned that.   

[red viking]

[Viratas]

Ok, let me start by saying I do not know every issue that their current group is fighting for, I understand on a high level. But I have had a beef with Obamacare from day 1.

ACA is the Subprime Market of HealthCare.

Fannie and Freddie guaranteed mortgages, removing risk from the lender (banks).  ACA subsidies guarantee payments to insurers (health plans), removing price risk.

Lenders had less incentive to be careful about loan quality or home price inflation because the government was backing the loan. Insurers/Providers have less incentive to lower the actual cost of care because a subsidy shields the patient, and a government guarantee of payment shields the insurer.

The risk was ultimately "dumped" onto the taxpayer when the market collapsed. The underlying cost inflation is ultimately "dumped" onto the taxpayer and the national debt through permanent, ever-increasing subsidies.

So my question is, at what point do we learn a lesson? I understand that when the Govt. Guaranteeing money to anyone or anything will lead to economic issues. I have yet to see any objective justification for $1.5 trillion. Why are Dems demanding a 10-year extension in a temp bill to keep the government open?

This is a political play on both sides; I'm not sure which side it will backfire on yet, and in the end, as is generally the case, the Taxpayer (not the poor) will be screwed.

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Should healthcare be a for-profit industry?

you want someone working for free? 

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I believe the 10 years agreement with a compromise. Not realizing that 10 years later, the Republican Party would be so extreme that they would want their own poorest constituents to pay 75% more for Health healthcare. Then using that as leverage to take down the whole thing. 
To what extent do you mean it has not done what it was meant to do by saving money? What data sets have you seen that proves this point? Please provide.
Private business in this instance denied people healthcare coverage due to pre-existing condition conditions, and lifetime money caps. Both are immoral. I hope you could agree on that. 
 

lol

this was planned.

they knew what was going to happen.

and now say they expected people to suffer ... so they could use it as a bargaining chip

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

Of course.  If you make insurance companies insure millions of previously uninsurable people with say preexisting conditions the premium will increase for others.  Out of pocket costs decreased for those that couldn't get coverage.

ACA was the largest tax increase (yes tax, the SC said so) on the middle class in the history of the world.

out of pocket costs DID NOT decrease for those people.

[red viking]

10 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

you want someone working for free? 

WTF are you talking about? Non-profits always have employees that work for money. Two totally different things. 

[Scouts Honor]

17 minutes ago, Viratas said:

.

Lenders had less incentive to be careful about loan quality or home price inflation because the government was backing the loan. Insurers/Providers have less incentive to lower the actual cost of care because a subsidy shields the patient, and a government guarantee of payment shields the insurer.



So my question is, at what point do we learn a lesson? I understand that when the Govt. Guaranteeing money to anyone or anything will lead to economic issues. I have yet to see any objective justification for $1.5 trillion. Why are Dems demanding a 10-year extension in a temp bill to keep the government open?

 

this is correct.

anytime govt is involved... the price goes up

[Viratas]

Just now, red viking said:

WTF are you talking about? Non-profits always have employees that work for money. Two totally different things. 

Like the Clinton Foundation, you even get an $8 million home and your wedding paid for... 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[red viking]

Just now, Viratas said:

Like the Clinton Foundation, you even get an $8 million home and your wedding paid for... 

Clinton Foundation never started until after Clinton was President. Yet another dumb thing the wingers keep bringing up. 

[Scouts Honor]

3 minutes ago, red viking said:

WTF are you talking about? Non-profits always have employees that work for money. Two totally different things. 

yep, look at canada... UK...

doctors working for ... schillings, etc 

[Scouts Honor]

2 minutes ago, red viking said:

Clinton Foundation never started until after Clinton was President. Yet another dumb thing the wingers keep bringing up. 

yet it's still corrupt

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

yep, look at canada... UK...

doctors working for ... schillings, etc 

While it’s not known exactly how many Canadians go to the U.S. for health care, according to a poll conducted by Ipsos in March 2024, 42% of Canadians would go to the U.S. and personally pay for routine health care if needed. That’s 10% more when compared to January 2023. Of those who responded, 38% said that they would travel to the U.S. for emergency care, a number that's up 9% from the previous year.
 

 

[mspart]

I have recounted here that BC sends cancer patients to Bellingham WA where they actually have the facilities to care for the cancer patients, whereas BC does not.   Now that's a great system.   Lucky for most of BC residents that Bellingham is not too far south of the border. 

mspart

[Viratas]

3 minutes ago, red viking said:

Clinton Foundation never started until after Clinton was President. Yet another dumb thing the wingers keep bringing up. 

That makes no sense, goofy. It paid for Chelsea's house and her wedding, WHICH WERE after.... Sometimes, you should slow down, think it through, and then say silly things; they will be less silly. 

So...

Clinton Left office in 2001

The Clinton Foundation paid for her wedding in 2010

Clinton bought her $10.5 million home with Foundation monies (sorry, I thought it was a mere $8 million). Apparently, her dad toured it with a hot realtor, and they had to replace all the carpet.. Maybe that part is just a rumor....

So, what exactly was your point again?

[red viking]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

I have recounted here that BC sends cancer patients to Bellingham WA where they actually have the facilities to care for the cancer patients, whereas BC does not.   Now that's a great system.   Lucky for most of BC residents that Bellingham is not too far south of the border. 

mspart

Overall, Canadians feel better about their health care than Americans. Here, health care is a complete ripoff and poor people get crappy care

[red viking]

2 minutes ago, Viratas said:

That makes no sense, goofy. It paid for Chelsea's house and her wedding, WHICH WERE after.... Sometimes, you should slow down, think it through, and then say silly things; they will be less silly. 

So...

Clinton Left office in 2001

The Clinton Foundation paid for her wedding in 2010

Clinton bought her $10.5 million home with Foundation monies (sorry, I thought it was a mere $8 million). Apparently, her dad toured it with a hot realtor, and they had to replace all the carpet.. Maybe that part is just a rumor....

So, what exactly was your point again?

No; the question is what is YOUR point? None of this happened until after the Clintons were out of the white house. Rampant corruption occurring right now by Trumptard and you're worried about stuff the Clintons are doing years after they're done. Unbelievable hypocrisy. 

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, red viking said:

Overall, Canadians feel better about their health care than Americans. Here, health care is a complete ripoff and poor people get crappy care

File that under made up again?

While it’s not known exactly how many Canadians go to the U.S. for health care, according to a poll conducted by Ipsos in March 2024, 42% of Canadians would go to the U.S. and personally pay for routine health care if needed. That’s 10% more when compared to January 2023. Of those who responded, 38% said that they would travel to the U.S. for emergency care, a number that's up 9% from the previous year.

[red viking]

3 minutes ago, Caveira said:

File that under made up again?

While it’s not known exactly how many Canadians go to the U.S. for health care, according to a poll conducted by Ipsos in March 2024, 42% of Canadians would go to the U.S. and personally pay for routine health care if needed. That’s 10% more when compared to January 2023. Of those who responded, 38% said that they would travel to the U.S. for emergency care, a number that's up 9% from the previous year.

LOL. If they could afford it. Also, notice the question. Read carefully: ....IF NEEDED. Most people are willing to do something when it's "NEEDED" anyway. What a BS question. Meanwhile, satisfaction with U.S. healthcare is at a 24-year low. > 50% of Canadians are satisfied with their healthcare. AI is nice. 

Edited October 28, 2025 by red viking

[Viratas]

1 minute ago, red viking said:

No; the question is what is YOUR point? None of this happened until after the Clintons were out of the white house. Rampant corruption occurring right now by Trumptard and you're worried about stuff the Clintons are doing years after they're done. Unbelievable hypocrisy. 

Goofy, Goofy, it is about the "non-profits" and how ethical they are. Like you know, "Paying" people....
 

Are you mad that Trump is paying for things with money that does not come from the taxpayers? You would rather have him be more like Obasim and the Super Ethical Clintons?

You constantly spew pure hate without a single fact, just Straw man arguments. All those years learning from Sparky and BB have truly paid off; they would be so proud. But I still appreciate you

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, red viking said:

LOL. If they could afford it. Meanwhile, satisfaction with U.S. healthcare is at a 24-year low. > 50% of Canadians are satisfied with their healthcare. AI is nice. 

That isn’t ai boss 

[red viking]

1 minute ago, Viratas said:

Goofy, Goofy, it is about the "non-profits" and how ethical they are. Like you know, "Paying" people....
 

Are you mad that Trump is paying for things with money that does not come from the taxpayers? You would rather have him be more like Obasim and the Super Ethical Clintons?

You constantly spew pure hate without a single fact, just Straw man arguments. All those years learning from Sparky and BB have truly paid off; they would be so proud. But I still appreciate you

No; he openly accepts bribes. Huge bribes. For political favors.