Why can't we switch to the 2-piece?

[ionel]

59 minutes ago, Booger said:

... well, then have him wear a sports bra, bruh!

No one wants to see a booger either yet here we are ... 

[Booger]

3 hours ago, ionel said:

No one wants to see a booger either yet here we are ... 

[boconnell]

13 hours ago, The Kid said:

Wrestling participation isn't through the roof.   It is in the basement imo.

IMO is the key to your statement.

There are actual facts that participation levels are at an all-time high.

I'm going to go with facts instead of your opinion.

[BruceyB]

36 minutes ago, boconnell said:

IMO is the key to your statement.

There are actual facts that participation levels are at an all-time high.

I'm going to go with facts instead of your opinion.

I believe the numbers are the highest they've been in decades, but not all time, not that it really matters for this argument.

Yes, numbers of participation are higher than they have been at any other point this century, but that isn't the point here. The question should be asked is, are there any barriers that prevent kids from getting involved with wrestling? If you say that the singlet does not deter kids that are on the fence about going out for wrestling, you are lying to yourself and everyone else. 

We're on this message board because we are die-hard wrestlers/fans. We aren't the audience to ask about if singlets are a problem, because we already love the sport and that has always been a part of it. Saying things such a "grow a pair and put on the singlet" is just gatekeeping the sport we love from insecure kids that aren't comfortable wearing a singlet in front of their peers. What is the upside of limiting our potential athletes to just those that aren't afraid to wear a singlet? If a change in uniform would get even just a small percentage of new athletes involved in the sport.. what does that hurt other than our nostalgia? 

Eventually, I do think fight shorts and a rash guard will be the standard in wrestling, and when that happens future generations of wrestlers will look back on singlets the way my generation looks back on how goofy the shorts and tights look of the 80s was, and they won't be able to believe that our sport used to make us wear such a ridiculous uniform.

[boconnell]

Just now, BruceyB said:

I believe the numbers are the highest they've been in decades, but not all time, not that it really matters for this argument.

Yes, numbers of participation are higher than they have been at any other point this century, but that isn't the point here. The question should be asked is, are there any barriers that prevent kids from getting involved with wrestling? If you say that the singlet does not deter kids that are on the fence about going out for wrestling, you are lying to yourself and everyone else. 

We're on this message board because we are die-hard wrestlers/fans. We aren't the audience to ask about if singlets are a problem, because we already love the sport and that has always been a part of it. Saying things such a "grow a pair and put on the singlet" is just gatekeeping the sport we love from insecure kids that aren't comfortable wearing a singlet in front of their peers. What is the upside of limiting our potential athletes to just those that aren't afraid to wear a singlet? If a change in uniform would get even just a small percentage of new athletes involved in the sport.. what does that hurt other than our nostalgia? 

Eventually, I do think fight shorts and a rash guard will be the standard in wrestling, and when that happens future generations of wrestlers will look back on singlets the way my generation looks back on how goofy the shorts and tights look of the 80s was, and they won't be able to believe that our sport used to make us wear such a ridiculous uniform.

I originally said that his other points had some relevance.  

But participation numbers are super strong.  Kids who want to wrestle are wrestling.  We aren't lacking for participants and we don't have a bunch of participants who will come into the sport once the singlet is abolished.  There are other arguments to be made, but the singlet holding back participation is a bad argument.  

[BruceyB]

2 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I originally said that his other points had some relevance.  

But participation numbers are super strong.  Kids who want to wrestle are wrestling.  We aren't lacking for participants and we don't have a bunch of participants who will come into the sport once the singlet is abolished.  There are other arguments to be made, but the singlet holding back participation is a bad argument.  

I don't think the singlet is a major factor in wrestling's overall landscape. Most kids that begin in youth wrestling do so because wrestling is in their family. Their dad wrestled, their brothers wrestle, cousins, someone. The singlet isn't going to matter because a lot of these kids are either signed up at an early age or they want to wrestle because someone they know wrestles. They want to wrestle. 

I think where you are hit the hardest is in recruiting kids that didn't wrestle growing up, especially at the junior high level. There we a number of people I went to school with that said they'd never wear a singlet. Coaches have a hard time recruiting football players because they don't want to wear a singlet. Being from Washington State, there is hardly a rich tradition of wrestling, especially in the more metro areas. Maybe in the mid-west and more traditional wrestling states, the singlet is a smaller obstacle. But I know first hand, especially with kids in Jr. High, a lot of kids have apprehension about coming out for wrestling because of the singlet. How many potential athletes are we losing? I don't know, could be 0.5%, 2%, 5%, who knows. But regardless, objectively, the singlet is ridiculous. If our memories were wiped and we were shown the WNO uniforms and a singlet and asked which you rather wear, literally no one is picking a singlet.

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I don't think the singlet is a major factor in wrestling's overall landscape. Most kids that begin in youth wrestling do so because wrestling is in their family. Their dad wrestled, their brothers wrestle, cousins, someone. The singlet isn't going to matter because a lot of these kids are either signed up at an early age or they want to wrestle because someone they know wrestles. They want to wrestle. 

I think where you are hit the hardest is in recruiting kids that didn't wrestle growing up, especially at the junior high level. There we a number of people I went to school with that said they'd never wear a singlet. Coaches have a hard time recruiting football players because they don't want to wear a singlet. Being from Washington State, there is hardly a rich tradition of wrestling, especially in the more metro areas. Maybe in the mid-west and more traditional wrestling states, the singlet is a smaller obstacle. But I know first hand, especially with kids in Jr. High, a lot of kids have apprehension about coming out for wrestling because of the singlet. How many potential athletes are we losing? I don't know, could be 0.5%, 2%, 5%, who knows. But regardless, objectively, the singlet is ridiculous. If our memories were wiped and we were shown the WNO uniforms and a singlet and asked which you rather wear, literally no one is picking a singlet.

I agree with what you're saying about it being an entry point issue on occasion.

In Washington here the local Junior Highs all give the kids a choice between singlet or shirt and shorts for matches.  I'd say about half choose each in year 1.  Almost none choose shirt and shorts in year 2.  

But overall participation is super strong and is not among our bigger issues.  We struggle to turn competitors into lifetime fans.  We don't struggle to get competitors.  

[Yellow_Medal]

Wrestling participation is through the roof and growing.  We don't have a problem getting kids to wrestle.  That's not a thing.  We are breaking participation records.  Your other points can be discussed, but this one doesn't apply.

I’m not saying if participation is or isn’t high at the moment. I can only offer an anecdote. After my kid’s soccer practice I was talking to his 11 year old buddy from wrestling. I asked if he’ll be wrestling this year and he said, “nah, too revealing”. You can call it an excuse or not, but it is a stigma that our sport has and, at least in this case, participation could have theoretically been boosted +1 with a different uniform.

[Yellow_Medal]

No one wants to see a booger either yet here we are ... 

Did someone say David Carr?

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, Yellow_Medal said:

I’m not saying if participation is or isn’t high at the moment. I can only offer an anecdote. After my kid’s soccer practice I was talking to his 11 year old buddy from wrestling. I asked if he’ll be wrestling this year and he said, “nah, too revealing”. You can call it an excuse or not, but it is a stigma that our sport has and, at least in this case, participation could have theoretically been boosted +1 with a different uniform.

I didn't know about this when I commented earlier.  I trusted the record participation numbers without looking into individual stories like this.  That's my fault.

[BruceyB]

4 hours ago, boconnell said:

I agree with what you're saying about it being an entry point issue on occasion.

In Washington here the local Junior Highs all give the kids a choice between singlet or shirt and shorts for matches.  I'd say about half choose each in year 1.  Almost none choose shirt and shorts in year 2.  

But overall participation is super strong and is not among our bigger issues.  We struggle to turn competitors into lifetime fans.  We don't struggle to get competitors.  

Doesn't the fact that half the kids choose shirt and shorts prove my point? I'd assume the majority that choose a singlet come from a wrestling background and have been wearing singlets for years. 

I do agree that the issue isn't participation but lifelong fans. Most of my core group of high school friends were former wrestling teammates, but not a single one follows the sport today. 

[MPhillips]

9 hours ago, Yellow_Medal said:

Did someone say David Carr?

Nice. You picked that one out from the archives...

[Gene Mills Fan]

20 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Nice. You picked that one out from the archives...

no pun intended

[Gene Mills Fan]

I always thought the singlets were cool like a uniform after passing basic training, something earned. Many only had the school singlet for matches.

At work I've met a smallish power lifter. Maybe 5'4" with hefty shoulders and biceps. I passed him and said; "hey were you a wrestler?"  He turned and said to me "No I don't wear tights!"  "They asked me but I told them I'm not doing that!"

Theres also a story of being mentored by my older cousin on training. He said all the lifters always challenge and posture! If you take them on they gas out in seconds. He implied most are just building mass to look good and be tough and do not have the mentality for struggles and endurance.

[MPhillips]

Just now, Gene Mills Fan said:

I passed him and said; "hey were you a wrestler?"  He turned and said to me "No I don't wear tights!" 

Typical, "Breakfast Club" response from a rockhead...

 

John Bender:
I wanna be just like you. I figure all I need, is a lobotomy and some tights.

Brian Johnson:
You wear tights?

Andrew Clark:
No I don't wear tights. I wear the required uniform.

Brian Johnson:
Tights.

[The Kid]

17 hours ago, boconnell said:

IMO is the key to your statement.

There are actual facts that participation levels are at an all-time high.

I'm going to go with facts instead of your opinion.

All time high?  Can you educate me on the number of wrestlers in high school  (2025) compared to 1980?

Half the dual meets in my area are forests or pin falls.  I live in Pennsylvania.  

We have lost many division programs including Syracuse,  LSU, Tennessee,  Auburn, Temple, Portland State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Oregon.  There's probably 30 more on the list of dropped programs, but yeah we have more wrestlers now?  

Edited 23 hours ago by The Kid

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, The Kid said:

All time high?  Can you educate me on the number of wrestlers in high school  (2025) compared to 1980?

Half the dual meets in my area are forests or pin falls.  I live in Pennsylvania.  

We have lost many division programs including Syracuse,  LSU, Tennessee,  Auburn, Temple, Portland State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Oregon.  There's probably 30 more on the list of dropped programs, but yeah we have more wrestlers now?  

We're talking about youth participation, and I don't have the numbers handy, but wrestling participation at the high school level is the highest it's been since the 80s. The cutting of college programs has literally nothing to do with high school participation. 

[MPhillips]

Just now, BruceyB said:

The cutting of college programs has literally nothing to do with high school participation. 

Depends on how badly you would like to argue. Experience talking...

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, The Kid said:

All time high?  Can you educate me on the number of wrestlers in high school  (2025) compared to 1980?

Half the dual meets in my area are forests or pin falls.  I live in Pennsylvania.  

We have lost many division programs including Syracuse,  LSU, Tennessee,  Auburn, Temple, Portland State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Oregon.  There's probably 30 more on the list of dropped programs, but yeah we have more wrestlers now?  

https://www.themat.com/news/2025/august/18/nfhs-reports-new-records-for-high-school-wrestling-participation-for-both-girls-and-boys-in-2024-25

[The Kid]

43 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

We're talking about youth participation, and I don't have the numbers handy, but wrestling participation at the high school level is the highest it's been since the 80s. The cutting of college programs has literally nothing to do with high school participation. 

I did see where wrestling has the 8th most participation on the boys side.  But, the quality isn't what it used to be on a team level imo.

 

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, The Kid said:

I did see where wrestling has the 8th most participation on the boys side.  But, the quality isn't what it used to be on a team level imo.

 

Wrestling is actually the 6th most participants. 

I can't speak definitively to the current quality of HS wrestling.  I know the top end is better than ever and doing more nationally and internationally than ever before.  But you might be right about the average HS level where you are.  I have no idea about that.  

[Caveira]

When I coached kids wrestling.  2019 - 2023 ish we offered singlets and two pieces.   There were about 90 kids in the program on average.  I think we sold maybe 1-2 two pieces per year.   Kids didn’t seem to like them either 

[Griff the BullRam]

12 hours ago, Caveira said:

When I coached kids wrestling.  2019 - 2023 ish we offered singlets and two pieces.   There were about 90 kids in the program on average.  I think we sold maybe 1-2 two pieces per year.   Kids didn’t seem to like them either 

Agreed. I've been coaching high school for 14 years. Since the two piece was allowed, we've given every kid on our team the option of choosing that over the singlet. Some of the newer wrestlers would choose the two piece, but the experienced kids almost always chose the singlet. Sure, some of it is that the two piece is new and the guys with experience just couldn't get on board with that. The first year at our state tournament, some of the better teams who qualified most of the kids would have everyone wear the two piece, and there were a fair amount of other individual kids wearing the two piece. Since then, you don't see it a whole lot. I'm all for the it if it's really going to grow wrestling and get kids out that otherwise wouldn't, but at this point, it almost seems like a failed experiment. It's still great that kids have that option, and I applaud Flo for doing the two piece at WNO, but it simply hasn't caught on, and I don't think it's for a lack of trying.

 

All this said, I still love it when D1 schools wear the two piece

[peanut]

I do not recommend going back to some of the older gear.

[alex1fly]

On 10/15/2025 at 2:59 PM, Fletcher said:

I run our youth wrestling club. We went with the 2-piece but the cost is more than double singlets. Most youth clubs and schools operate on a shoestring budget already.

Kids also are more likely to not return the 2-piece at the end of the season because it looks cool. I'll see them wearing it around town in the summer - you won't see that happen with a singlet.

What are the costs of the two uniforms? Do kids need more than one per season? Not arguing, genuinely curious.