Milgram

[ThreePointTakedown]

 

Is life, today just one large Milgram Experiment? 

 

Police, who no longer have to be honest when interacting with people they are supposed to protect and serve. They also no longer have to protect those same people. When they do things to those same people that could hurt or kill them, they are investigated by other police. Those internal investigators also have an incentive for the actions to be deemed legal for fear of, at some point in the future, being punished themselves for similar actions. 

 

Posse Comitatus: prevents federal troops from participating in civil law enforcement except when authorized by law(congress). 

 

ICE: initial budget, $3.3B, 2003. FY 2025, $9.6B. Uncontrollable OT never led to bad behavior(Baltimore PD and Gun Trace Task Force). They cover their faces and do not wear name tags. So as not to be identified for possible legal action from those they harm in the fulfillment of their duties. They are not only given permission to terrorize Americans and immigrants but are getting rewarded for doing it. This will lead to bad things happening. It always has and always will. 

They are, seemingly, being used as a stand in for the US military on the streets of American cities. Hiring 18000 people that WANT to do the things that have been witnessed in recent history is a scary notion. 

• A maximum $50,000 signing bonus
• Student loan repayment and forgiveness options
• 25% Law Enforcement Availability Pay (LEAP) for HSI Special Agents
• Administratively Uncontrollable Overtime for Enforcement Removal Operations (ERO) Deportation Officers
• Enhanced retirement benefits

 

[Viratas]

When I thought I could not see anything more out of line than what RV pushes, you one-up him. 

Just a few facts, and you can carry on.

Exceptions to PCA have always been in place for the protection of federal property and or functions when local authorities are unable or decline to provide adequate security (that last part is critical).

Also, the National Guard, if directed by a Governor, falls outside of the PCA. If they are federalized, you are correct, and they are subject to PCA, but again, except for the whole protection of Federal Property, and locals not offering assistance. 

Are you simply for no borders, no immigration law, and no enforcement? If not, then what is your suggested solution to the issue?

Were you enraged when Obama deported millions?

[red viking]

100%. These goons/thugs don't deserve a dime and are ALL significantly overpaid. Fire them all and I'd press charges and pursue lawsuits for the large percentage that have abused and harassed (mostly) peaceful protesters. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

Nice to meet you, V. I hope we can have a productive and respectful conversation. 

When I thought I could not see anything more out of line than what RV pushes, you one-up him. I understand you feel that way. Can I ask how you see it as being 'out of line'?

Just a few facts, and you can carry on.
 

Exceptions to PCA have always been in place for the protection of federal property and or functions when local authorities are unable or decline to provide adequate security (that last part is critical). I see what you're saying. But I think I mentioned 'civil law enforcement'. What point are you trying to make by bring up 'exceptions' ?

 

Also, the National Guard, if directed by a Governor, falls outside of the PCA. If they are federalized, you are correct, and they are subject to PCA, but again, except for the whole protection of Federal Property, and locals not offering assistance. Yup, that's why I didn't bring up these points. They are all legal. 

 

Are you simply for no borders, no immigration law, and no enforcement? If not, then what is your suggested solution to the issue? I am for a much looser process than what we've had, for sure. Make the process much quicker. Collaborate with other countries to outsource most of the logistics. Do better and quicker background checks. Perhaps tax incoming immigrants at a higher rate until they complete the process of becoming a citizen. If they don't want to and continue to pay higher taxes then that's fine. Commit a violent or bad crime and you lose the privilege of being here. Go back to allowing people to temporarily migrate for work as long as the clear all the hurdles and maintain their good status in the US. If they don't pass the background check from their home country then they can't come or they have to pay an exorbitant amount depending on the infraction. 

 

Were you enraged when Obama deported millions? Nope. And what 47 is doing compared to President Obama are not the same. Obama abided by the constitution and gave all persons due process. That 47 deported even one person without due process, which happened, they no longer fall in the same category as Obama or Biden with regard to deportations. No matter the number of deportations. Please let me know where you think I’m wrong. 

 

If you have any other questions. I'd be happy to answer as best I can. 

[Scouts Honor]

covid lockdowns certainly were one of those times

point me to all your posts about that.

[Viratas]

6 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

Nice to meet you, V. I hope we can have a productive and respectful conversation. 

When I thought I could not see anything more out of line than what RV pushes, you one-up him. I understand you feel that way. Can I ask how you see it as being 'out of line'?

Just a few facts, and you can carry on.
 

Exceptions to PCA have always been in place for the protection of federal property and or functions when local authorities are unable or decline to provide adequate security (that last part is critical). I see what you're saying. But I think I mentioned 'civil law enforcement'. What point are you trying to make by bring up 'exceptions' ?

 

Also, the National Guard, if directed by a Governor, falls outside of the PCA. If they are federalized, you are correct, and they are subject to PCA, but again, except for the whole protection of Federal Property, and locals not offering assistance. Yup, that's why I didn't bring up these points. They are all legal. 

 

Are you simply for no borders, no immigration law, and no enforcement? If not, then what is your suggested solution to the issue? I am for a much looser process than what we've had, for sure. Make the process much quicker. Collaborate with other countries to outsource most of the logistics. Do better and quicker background checks. Perhaps tax incoming immigrants at a higher rate until they complete the process of becoming a citizen. If they don't want to and continue to pay higher taxes then that's fine. Commit a violent or bad crime and you lose the privilege of being here. Go back to allowing people to temporarily migrate for work as long as the clear all the hurdles and maintain their good status in the US. If they don't pass the background check from their home country then they can't come or they have to pay an exorbitant amount depending on the infraction. 

 

Were you enraged when Obama deported millions? Nope. And what 47 is doing compared to President Obama are not the same. Obama abided by the constitution and gave all persons due process. That 47 deported even one person without due process, which happened, they no longer fall in the same category as Obama or Biden with regard to deportations. No matter the number of deportations. Please let me know where you think I’m wrong. 

 

If you have any other questions. I'd be happy to answer as best I can. 

 Well, since you do seem far more rational than the angry RV, I appreciate an actual Discussion.

1. What I find silly (and so you know I was somewhat having fun with you), is that your first point (I actually agree with on many levels, Police in this country are not all good nor are they all bad, most are just trying to do a job the best they can). I had the feeling that you were coming off as someone who promotes no police, and defends criminal behavior and even murder, but condemns police when lethal force is used. That's a whole different discussion.  I apologize if I am misunderstanding that position.

2. You then bring up PCA with almost no reference and not explaining the whole thing, like Chicago refusing to help agents in distress while protecting a federal facility. All of which are within the law. You did not provide an actual example where federal troops are being used to arrest and detain people. If I missed that specific example I apologize. 

3. Ice (The 3rd topic in one thread, correct?) So we wait until a known criminal commits yet another crime, murder or rape, before we take action?

You don't like how he is doing things, which is fair and right; I fully support you. Do I agree with what he is doing all the time? Nope, I mean I call him the Orange man. But what I am is a person who believes in Democracy, not socialism, not murder, etc I am dumbfounded how we have fallen so far as a society (Both parties to be exact). I never really followed Kirk other than what I saw online. But how the left behaved after his murder is not only disturbing, it's truly sad. Did I think Biden was a fool? Yes, I did, but I never made personal attacks towards him, cracked jokes, or used satire. Yes, I  did. But, I also told all the people I know I feel bad for him, and that those close to him should be ashamed, my father had many of the same issues before he died and it sad to see, even sadder seeing people take advantage of him. 

Anyway, I am not saying what you believe or don't, nor am I lumping you in, which I did at first, to mess around. Thanks for the response, and it's nice to meet you too. 

[Caveira]

21 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Obama abided by the constitution and gave all persons due process.

Um.  Obama fast tracked deportations without due process too boss.  In large volume at that.     I mean if you believe the right wing aclu 

The numbers are staggering: in 1995, 1,400 immigrants were subject to nonjudicial removals, representing 3 percent of total deportations. By FY 2012 that number had sharply increased to 313,000 nonjudicial removals – an all-time high.

Multiple sources, including reports from the 

American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)and the American Immigration Council, indicate that the Obama administration deported many people through fast-tracked procedures that curtailed due process protections. This included the use of expedited and "streamlined" removal processes that significantly limited or bypassed court hearings for hundreds of thousands of individuals. 

https://www.aclutx.org/en/news/speed-over-fairness-deportation-under-obama-administration

[mspart]

Viratas!!!!!    Welcome!!!

mspart

[Viratas]

15 minutes ago, mspart said:

Viratas!!!!!    Welcome!!!

mspart

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

40 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Um.  Obama fast tracked deportations without due process too boss.  In large volume at that.     I mean if you believe the right wing aclu 

The numbers are staggering: in 1995, 1,400 immigrants were subject to nonjudicial removals, representing 3 percent of total deportations. By FY 2012 that number had sharply increased to 313,000 nonjudicial removals – an all-time high.

 

Multiple sources, including reports from the 

American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)and the American Immigration Council, indicate that the Obama administration deported many people through fast-tracked procedures that curtailed due process protections. This included the use of expedited and "streamlined" removal processes that significantly limited or bypassed court hearings for hundreds of thousands of individuals. 

https://www.aclutx.org/en/news/speed-over-fairness-deportation-under-obama-administration

That’s fair. I take back that point. My apologies. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

Well, since you do seem far more rational than the angry RV, I appreciate an actual Discussion. Here here. (sorry for bold and underline, wasn't sure the formatting would copy and paste accurately)
 

1. What I find silly (and so you know I was somewhat having fun with you), is that your first point (I actually agree with on many levels, Police in this country are not all good nor are they all bad, most are just trying to do a job the best they can). I had the feeling that you were coming off as someone who promotes no police, and defends criminal behavior and even murder, but condemns police when lethal force is used. That's a whole different discussion.  I apologize if I am misunderstanding that position. So we can agree they can do better or be different as a part of our society. What I can't stand is the push back against any reform to police. Much of that reform comes from the police themselves. And rightfully so, we push back against changes that could drastically effect our lives. Uncertainty can be terrifying. But keeping the status quo for no other reason than 'I don't wanna' is unacceptable. We need to live in reality and be able to have difficult discussions. The people that will be most affected, the police and those the people they 'serve', need to be honest about what things can be and need to be changed and options for making those changes. Perfect is the enemy of the good. 

 

2. You then bring up PCA with almost no reference and not explaining the whole thing, like Chicago refusing to help agents in distress while protecting a federal facility. All of which are within the law. You did not provide an actual example where federal troops are being used to arrest and detain people. If I missed that specific example I apologize. Yes, I brought up PCA because I was citing the fact that agents of ICE are, seemingly, being used as a stand in for the military. Because 47 has been knocked down the courts as not having the authority to use military in civil policing. ICE is being used as a work around. Hiring a ton more agents so they can be used as an overwhelming force in cities in a systematic fashion. Also, seemingly. 

 

3. Ice (The 3rd topic in one thread, correct?) So we wait until a known criminal commits yet another crime, murder or rape, before we take action? Not sure what you're getting at with this one. But no. Arrest criminals. Give them justice. I'm not against that. Too many videos of ICE agents not doing anything like justice is disheartening.  

 

You don't like how he is doing things, which is fair and right; I fully support you. Do I agree with what he is doing all the time? Nope, I mean I call him the Orange man. But what I am is a person who believes in Democracy, not socialism, not murder, etc I am dumbfounded how we have fallen so far as a society (Both parties to be exact). I never really followed Kirk other than what I saw online. But how the left behaved after his murder is not only disturbing, it's truly sad. Did I think Biden was a fool? Yes, I did, but I never made personal attacks towards him, cracked jokes, or used satire. Yes, I  did. But, I also told all the people I know I feel bad for him, and that those close to him should be ashamed, my father had many of the same issues before he died and it sad to see, even sadder seeing people take advantage of him. 'Fallen far as a society' please elaborate? 'Kirk and the left' I can't comment on things I haven't seen. Some people are dumb and rude, that can't be helped. But I'll repeat the same points I've heard for weeks now. The left are not made up of people, some anonymous, on social media making comments about a person. Politicians and leaders of the Democratic party, from what I've seen made no comments that could be considered as making light of the situation. If they did, I would admonish them for those comments. Kirk, in my opinion was not a good person. That they were brave enough to state their divisive opinions does not outweigh the fact that they thought some people were 'less than'. Which is an opinion they had and repeated many times. 

 

Anyway, I am not saying what you believe or don't, nor am I lumping you in, which I did at first, to mess around. Thanks for the response, and it's nice to meet you too. Glad we can have a good back and forth. 

[Viratas]

32 minutes ago, mspart said:

Viratas!!!!!    Welcome!!!

mspart

Hola, my friend!

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Viratas said:

Hola, my friend!

Well sure ... but do you like your cake and eat it too?  

[Viratas]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Well sure ... but do you like your cake and eat it too?  

100%

[reversaloffortune]

V, meet 3PT TD, 3PT TD meet V. V and Art are old timers from forever ago. All we need now is CTC and it will be a hoot.

[mspart]

Hey I resemble that remark.  I think it was V that gave me my avatar.   It looks just like me. 

mspart

[Viratas]

1 hour ago, reversaloffortune said:

V, meet 3PT TD, 3PT TD meet V. V and Art are old timers from forever ago. All we need now is CTC and it will be a hoot.

Oh crap I left CTC off the song.

[Viratas]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

Hey I resemble that remark.  I think it was V that gave me my avatar.   It looks just like me. 

mspart

I believe it did give that to you, about 15 years ago lol