JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 20 minutes ago, red viking said: What a waste. They're already getting rich with their payoffs from drug dealers and stealing contraband. Meanwhile, the fat pigs just sit in the donut shops all day on a power trip. The waste would be what the union reps make. Could solve all money problems by disbanding the corrupt unions. Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
fishbane Posted September 5 Posted September 5 3 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said: The waste would be what the union reps make. Could solve all money problems by disbanding the corrupt unions. Union reps are police officers in the department that were voted into position by officers in the department. To the extent they are paid for their union responsibilities that comes from the union dues paid by officers. If there is corruption in police unions the blame for that must fall on the officers - the union leadership and its members. If you have an example of a police union that operates with non-police officers as labor representatives please provide it. I think you are either mostly wrong in the most police unions operate differently than you think (police officers are the union reps and leadership selected by police officers) or you are confusing the union rep with a lawyer that might be employed by the union or paid for by the union to advise or represent an officer in a particular legal matter.
Caveira Posted September 5 Posted September 5 15 minutes ago, fishbane said: Union reps are police officers in the department that were voted into position by officers in the department. To the extent they are paid for their union responsibilities that comes from the union dues paid by officers. If there is corruption in police unions the blame for that must fall on the officers - the union leadership and its members. If you have an example of a police union that operates with non-police officers as labor representatives please provide it. I think you are either mostly wrong in the most police unions operate differently than you think (police officers are the union reps and leadership selected by police officers) or you are confusing the union rep with a lawyer that might be employed by the union or paid for by the union to advise or represent an officer in a particular legal matter. Compare and contrast that to the teachers unions
wrestlingguy Posted September 5 Posted September 5 5 hours ago, red viking said: What a waste. They're already getting rich with their payoffs from drug dealers and stealing contraband. Meanwhile, the fat pigs just sit in the donut shops all day on a power trip. More made up BS. Weren't you one of the posters on here saying things aren't like you see in the movies? 1
red viking Posted September 5 Posted September 5 6 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said: More made up BS. Weren't you one of the posters on here saying things aren't like you see in the movies? When it comes to cops, it's worse than the movies. Fighting the Good Fight Against Non-Stop Winger Lies and Hypocrisy
fishbane Posted September 5 Posted September 5 20 minutes ago, Caveira said: Compare and contrast that to the teachers unions I am less familiar with teachers unions, but all unions have some similarities. I am sure it works in much the same way overall. The main difference if that there are large national unions for teachers. The National Education Association (NEA) and the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) are two of the largest unions in this country. They have millions of members, hundreds of employees, and headquartered in Washington DC. The local chapter of the teachers unions might be operate similarly to the police union, but there is the big national body over top of it. That isn’t the case for police unions. This isn’t true of the DC MPD because they are in DC, but let’s use the Minneapolis MPD as an example. The rank and file are represented by the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis (POFM) and there is no national office in DC with hundreds of full time employees to answer to. The POFM is run by a board of directors that are 10 police officers from the MPD voted for by the membership which are all MPD officers. They might have like 10 employees. So if the POFM is corrupt there is no national organization in DC with hundreds of employees and leaders elected by millions of teachers across the country to blame. It’s all Minneapolis police offices and a handful or two of admin staff and lawyers employed directly by them.
ionel Posted September 5 Posted September 5 (edited) 7 minutes ago, fishbane said: I am less familiar with teachers unions, but all unions have some similarities. I am sure it works in much the same way overall. The main difference if that there are large national unions for teachers. The National Education Association (NEA) and the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) are two of the largest unions in this country. They have millions of members, hundreds of employees, and headquartered in Washington DC. The local chapter of the teachers unions might be operate similarly to the police union, but there is the big national body over top of it. That isn’t the case for police unions. This isn’t true of the DC MPD because they are in DC, but let’s use the Minneapolis MPD as an example. The rank and file are represented by the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis (POFM) and there is no national office in DC with hundreds of full time employees to answer to. The POFM is run by a board of directors that are 10 police officers from the MPD voted for by the membership which are all MPD officers. They might have like 10 employees. So if the POFM is corrupt there is no national organization in DC with hundreds of employees and leaders elected by millions of teachers across the country to blame. It’s all Minneapolis police offices and a handful or two of admin staff and lawyers employed directly by them. When did the President of NEA last teach a class? Why do we need a national teachers union when schools and school districts are local? Why don't we have a National Wrestling Coaches Union (NWCU)? Edited September 5 by ionel .
mspart Posted September 5 Posted September 5 22 minutes ago, red viking said: When it comes to cops, it's worse than the movies. And as a geologist, and past EMT and weapons guy in the army, you would know this how? It sounds like you are a defund the police guy. Quite radical. mspart
fishbane Posted September 5 Posted September 5 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ionel said: When did the President of NEA last teach a class? Why do we need a national teachers union when schools and school districts are local? I’m not sure. The president recently said that she spent 31 of her 70 years teaching middle school. Making some general assumptions regarding when she started teaching and her career I’d say 17 years ago. Maybe less for the last time she was a middle school teacher. Might been more recent for teaching a single class of any kind. Teachers Unions are a little off topic of this particular thread, but I imagine the national body does lobbying and advocacy. Police do this too but not through a large national union. It through organizations like the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). Edited September 5 by fishbane
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 1 hour ago, fishbane said: Union reps are police officers in the department that were voted into position by officers in the department. To the extent they are paid for their union responsibilities that comes from the union dues paid by officers. If there is corruption in police unions the blame for that must fall on the officers - the union leadership and its members. If you have an example of a police union that operates with non-police officers as labor representatives please provide it. I think you are either mostly wrong in the most police unions operate differently than you think (police officers are the union reps and leadership selected by police officers) or you are confusing the union rep with a lawyer that might be employed by the union or paid for by the union to advise or represent an officer in a particular legal matter. It’s like voting for the president. Your options are limited and usually terrible. Have you ever sat in on union negotiations? I have. Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 38 minutes ago, red viking said: When it comes to cops, it's worse than the movies. Ok comrade Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 38 minutes ago, red viking said: When it comes to cops, it's worse than the movies. I’m kinda confused. You work 90 hours per week, then mix in being on here with your sleep. How on earth do you have any time to know what happens in movies??? 1 Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 1 hour ago, fishbane said: Union reps are police officers in the department that were voted into position by officers in the department. To the extent they are paid for their union responsibilities that comes from the union dues paid by officers. If there is corruption in police unions the blame for that must fall on the officers - the union leadership and its members. If you have an example of a police union that operates with non-police officers as labor representatives please provide it. I think you are either mostly wrong in the most police unions operate differently than you think (police officers are the union reps and leadership selected by police officers) or you are confusing the union rep with a lawyer that might be employed by the union or paid for by the union to advise or represent an officer in a particular legal matter. So you’re saying 100% of all police union reps are cops from their district???? Is that correct? Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
Caveira Posted September 5 Posted September 5 34 minutes ago, mspart said: And as a geologist, and past EMT and weapons guy in the army, you would know this how? It sounds like you are a defund the police guy. Quite radical. mspart Maybe he forgot to say he was an MP too?
fishbane Posted September 5 Posted September 5 13 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said: It’s like voting for the president. Your options are limited and usually terrible. Have you ever sat in on union negotiations? I have. Yes but crucially all the options are police officers. If the union president is corrupt it is a police officer that is corrupt. If the candidate that ran against the president was also corrupt then that means there are two corrupt police officers. So when I said police officers are largely to blame for the negative public sentiment towards them, if it turns out that the unions are the cause of the corruption then police officers are still to blame. At a minimum the police officers that are in the union leadership. 17 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said: So you’re saying 100% of all police union reps are cops from their district???? Is that correct? You know it is not. I have given you examples of police unions in major cities where the union reps are police officers voted into position by police officers. I have asked multiple times for you to provide an example of a police union where that is not the case...
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 2 minutes ago, fishbane said: Yes but crucially all the options are police officers. If the union president is corrupt it is a police officer that is corrupt. If the candidate that ran against the president was also corrupt then that means there are two corrupt police officers. So when I said police officers are largely to blame for the negative public sentiment towards them, if it turns out that the unions are the cause of the corruption then police officers are still to blame. At a minimum the police officers that are in the union leadership. You know it is not. I have given you examples of police unions in major cities where the union reps are police officers voted into position by police officers. I have asked multiple times for you to provide an example of a police union where that is not the case... Multiple times? This was the second request right? https://www.google.com/search?q=are+all+police+union+reps+current+police+officers&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS1057US1057&oq=are+all+police+union+reps+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCAgAEEUYJxg7MggIABBFGCcYOzIGCAEQRRg5MgcIAhAhGKABMgcIAxAhGKABMgcIBBAhGKABMgcIBRAhGKABMgcIBhAhGKsCMgcIBxAhGKsCMgcICBAhGKsCMgcICRAhGJ8F0gEINzU1NmowajeoAhqwAgHiAwQYASBf8QWMNbI1RifTdPEFjDWyNUYn03Q&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 3 minutes ago, fishbane said: Yes but crucially all the options are police officers. If the union president is corrupt it is a police officer that is corrupt. If the candidate that ran against the president was also corrupt then that means there are two corrupt police officers. So when I said police officers are largely to blame for the negative public sentiment towards them, if it turns out that the unions are the cause of the corruption then police officers are still to blame. At a minimum the police officers that are in the union leadership. You know it is not. I have given you examples of police unions in major cities where the union reps are police officers voted into position by police officers. I have asked multiple times for you to provide an example of a police union where that is not the case... Btw The police union where I currently live does not have 100% current police offers as union reps. Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
fishbane Posted September 5 Posted September 5 2 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said: Btw The police union where I currently live does not have 100% current police offers as union reps. Which city is that?
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 Just now, fishbane said: Which city is that? Good try. Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 5 minutes ago, fishbane said: Which city is that? You ignored the link I sent. why??? Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 51 minutes ago, fishbane said: Teachers Unions are a little off topic of this particular thread, but I imagine the national body does lobbying and advocacy. Police do this too but not through a large national union. It through organizations like the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). https://www.google.com/search?q=is+the+fraternal+order+of+police+a+union&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS1057US1057&oq=is+the+fraternal+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgAEAAYFBiHAhiABDIMCAAQABgUGIcCGIAEMgwIARAAGBQYhwIYgAQyBwgCEAAYgAQyBggDEEUYOTIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIICAgQABgWGB4yCAgJEAAYFhge0gEINDA4M2owajeoAhqwAgHiAwQYASBf8QXaiLB5yKRfGPEF2oiwecikXxg&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 You kinda like to make shit up as you go huh?? sure looks to me like the FOP is a large national union. Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
fishbane Posted September 5 Posted September 5 2 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said: You ignored the link I sent. why??? The link is nonsense that doesn't prove anything similar to you stating there is a non police officer union rep in some union you won't name. Probably because if you did wed see that most of the reps in that union are police officers too. If this were so common it would be easy to make a large well know police department where a bunch of non-police officer union reps. If you take out "all" from your Google query it completely changes the AI answer. It reads Yes, police union representatives are almost always current or recently retired police officers who are voted or appointed to their positions to represent their fellow officers. Which sounds a lot like what I have been saying. If police corruption is due to union corruption then police officers are responsible.
fishbane Posted September 5 Posted September 5 12 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said: You kinda like to make shit up as you go huh?? sure looks to me like the FOP is a large national union. The largest national union? The NEA is AFT are both much larger. And it isn't even a union. It's organized as a 501c8 not c5. At the top level it isn't a labor organization, but it does the kind of lobbying that many labor organizations do.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 19 minutes ago, fishbane said: The link is nonsense that doesn't prove anything similar to you stating there is a non police officer union rep in some union you won't name. Probably because if you did wed see that most of the reps in that union are police officers too. If this were so common it would be easy to make a large well know police department where a bunch of non-police officer union reps. If you take out "all" from your Google query it completely changes the AI answer. It reads Yes, police union representatives are almost always current or recently retired police officers who are voted or appointed to their positions to represent their fellow officers. Which sounds a lot like what I have been saying. If police corruption is due to union corruption then police officers are responsible. It states a fact. You just don’t like the answer Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
JimmySpeaks Posted September 5 Author Posted September 5 5 minutes ago, fishbane said: The largest national union? The NEA is AFT are both much larger. And it isn't even a union. It's organized as a 501c8 not c5. At the top level it isn't a labor organization, but it does the kind of lobbying that many labor organizations do. Show me where I said largest. I’ll wait. Its easy to be a non believer when you’re alive but it won’t be when you die.
Gavin Mangano Shoreham-Wading River, New York Class of 2027 Committed to Penn State Projected Weight: 149
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