maga has no moral compass

[152lbs]

How can anyone be ok with forceable detainment and deportation of immigrants (yes, they undocumented but I don't care) at school graduations, hospitals, places of employment, churches, or even court hearings.  Don't bother answering the rhetorical question.  It has already been established that magas are heartless.

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

How can anyone be ok with forceable detainment and deportation of immigrants (yes, they undocumented but I don't care) at school graduations, hospitals, places of employment, churches, or even court hearings.  Don't bother answering the rhetorical question.  It has already been established that magas are heartless.

Why does it matter where the illegals are found?    Leo often use interesting means to trick criminals into getting caught.  Whatever is more confident for law enforcement.   Illegal is illegal no?   
 

tell you what.  Ds and Rs are 50/50 ish across the population.  Let’s double your taxes where it goes to paying for them and zero out mine. 
 

deal?

[red viking]

Just now, Caveira said:

Why does it matter where the illegals are found?    Leo often use interesting means to trick criminals into getting caught.  Whatever is more confident for law enforcement.   Illegal is illegal no?   
 

tell you what.  Ds and Rs are 50/50 ish across the population.  Let’s double your taxes where it goes to paying for them and zero out mine. 
 

deal?

They actually are net contributors to the economy, with their willingness to take on low paying jobs that nobody else wants, and also being disproportionately young so that they aren't sucking the govt teet. 

[mspart]

Hey 152,

Analogy to your conundrum.   

Someone you do not know, comes into your house and starts living there or takes up residence in your yard without asking you or getting your permission.   If you want said person to stay, and fight to have them stay, you have a heart.   If you want said person to leave, and go through the legal process or not you are heartless.   My guess is that you will find way more heartless folks than those with a heart.  

There are laws, or should be, regarding squatting in a house or property that does not belong to you.   There are laws, or should be (and actually are on the books), regarding entering the country illegally and staying in that country you do not belong to. 

mspart

 

 

[red viking]

13 minutes ago, mspart said:

Hey 152,

Analogy to your conundrum.   

Someone you do not know, comes into your house and starts living there or takes up residence in your yard without asking you or getting your permission.   If you want said person to stay, and fight to have them stay, you have a heart.   If you want said person to leave, and go through the legal process or not you are heartless.   My guess is that you will find way more heartless folks than those with a heart.  

There are laws, or should be, regarding squatting in a house or property that does not belong to you.   There are laws, or should be (and actually are on the books), regarding entering the country illegally and staying in that country you do not belong to. 

mspart

 

 

Horrible analogy. Comparing somebody coming into your house vs the country that you live in. 

[152lbs]

I will address two questions in one post.  I am against ALL ice raids. The location matters because of the intent.  And the intent is to strike terror and fear into anyone with Brown skin and especially immigrants.

As to art's analogy.  It is garabge that is barely worth addressing. No one is camping in your yard, breaking into your home, stealing your food, etc.

 

[mspart]

The analogy works even if you don't want it to.   Sorry for that, but that is the way it is.

mspart

[152lbs]

28 minutes ago, red viking said:

They actually are net contributors to the economy, with their willingness to take on low paying jobs that nobody else wants, and also being disproportionately young so that they aren't sucking the govt teet. 

We are dealing with a very racist misconception that people living here unocumented commit more crimes or use government resources disportionately.  They aren't even eligible for SNAP, TANF, etc so that is just a maga talking point lie.  The welfare queen myth perpetuated by reagan lives on.

[152lbs]

7 minutes ago, mspart said:

The analogy works even if you don't want it to.   Sorry for that, but that is the way it is.

mspart

No, it really doesn't.

[jross]

Is it fair to call someone heartless if they’re making hard choices to protect what they think is right?

There’s a video that shows even taking millions of immigrants barely scratches the surface of the 3 billion people living on less than $2/day. It’s not about not caring... it’s about realizing we can’t fix everything through immigration.  

We should prioritize caring for our own people first and stick to legal immigration processes to ensure fairness for those who follow the rules. Helping others is important, but it’s often more effective to support people where they live rather than straining our resources with a system that only helps a few.

MAGA could display more compassion, absolutely, but its focus is on priorities that rank above sympathy for illegal aliens. We shouldn’t overlook the rest of America.  Any group’s actions can be framed as heartless depending on the examples chosen.

 

 

 

[152lbs]

A more accurate analogy is an asylum seeker fleeing their country due to economic, political, or social reasons and entering a bordering country without prior authorization. So they take jobs with the lowest barriers to entry and are often exploited by employers under the threat of being turned in.  

[jross]

There is a case to be made that open-border folks are heartless to struggling Americans.

[152lbs]

4 minutes ago, jross said:

 

Is it fair to call someone heartless if they’re making hard choices to protect what they think is right?

There’s a video that shows even taking millions of immigrants barely scratches the surface of the 3 billion people living on less than $2/day. It’s not about not caring... it’s about realizing we can’t fix everything through immigration.  

We should prioritize caring for our own people first and stick to legal immigration processes to ensure fairness for those who follow the rules. Helping others is important, but it’s often more effective to support people where they live rather than straining our resources with a system that only helps a few.

MAGA could display more compassion, absolutely, but its focus is on priorities that rank above sympathy for illegal aliens. We shouldn’t overlook the rest of America.  Any group’s actions can be framed as heartless depending on the examples chosen.

 

 

 

Yes, it is very fair to call you heartless when you advocate separating kids from their parents, using abusive tactics to apprehend people whose sole offense is being here without papers.  Absolutely. 

[152lbs]

1 minute ago, jross said:

There is a case to be made that open-border folks are heartless to struggling Americans.

I call b s because no one's job is being "stolen".  No one is applying for those positions.

Edited 5 hours ago by 152lbs

[jross]

You’re missing the point of the analogy. It’s not saying immigrants are literally breaking into your house or stealing your food.  It’s about respecting boundaries and rules. A country, like a home, has laws to protect its resources and citizens.

Illegal aliens bypass those laws, just like squatting ignores property rights. Sure, a country’s bigger than a house, but the principle’s the same: fairness matters. Calling MAGA heartless for wanting legal processes followed ignores their priorities... caring for Americans first... workers struggling with job competition... a system that rewards those who wait years to enter legally.

Citizens should have a say in who lives here and shapes our culture; that’s partly why we have legal immigration processes.

Open borders won’t solve poverty. 

[Lipdrag]

23 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

They aren't even eligible for SNAP, TANF, etc

They aren't even eligible to be here.  

[jross]

4 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

Yes, it is very fair to call you heartless when you advocate separating kids from their parents, using abusive tactics to apprehend people whose sole offense is being here without papers.  Absolutely. 

What about the responsibility and morals of the parents that choose to abandon their children, or choose to put their children at risk? 

[jross]

7 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

I call b s because no one's job is being "stolen".  No one is applying for those positions.

It’s not that simple. Citizens compete with illegal workers in jobs like construction and cheap labor affects wages.  

[jross]

17 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

Yes, it is very fair to call you heartless when you advocate separating kids from their parents, using abusive tactics to apprehend people whose sole offense is being here without papers.  Absolutely. 

Nobody’s pushing to separate kids from parents.  That is rhetoric, not critical thinking. Parents who stay illegally know the risk of deportation, which can split families as a byproduct, not a goal.

Blaming the legal system instead of their parental choice is unfair.

[red viking]

9 minutes ago, jross said:

It’s not that simple. Citizens compete with illegal workers in jobs like construction and cheap labor affects wages.  

Yah; Republicans now want higher wages. OMG, the hypocrisy is unreal. 

[Caveira]

32 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

A more accurate analogy is an asylum seeker fleeing their country due to economic, political, or social reasons and entering a bordering country without prior authorization. So they take jobs with the lowest barriers to entry and are often exploited by employers under the threat of being turned in.  

Who takes on more legal immigrants annually.  
 

wait.  We do.   

[Offthemat]

Keep in mind, when it comes to farm workers, there are guest worker programs that provide for needed help.  
This from the Center for Immigration Studies:

Notable findings:

• Of the 474 civilian occupations, only six are majority immigrant (legal and illegal). These six occupations account for 1 percent of the total U.S. workforce. Moreover, native-born Americans still comprise 46 percent of workers in these occupations.
• There are no occupations in the United States in which a majority of workers are illegal immigrants.
• Illegal immigrants work mostly in construction, cleaning, maintenance, food service, garment manufacturing, and agricultural occupations. However, the majority of workers even in these areas are either native-born or legal immigrants.
• Only 4 percent of illegal immigrants and 2 percent of all immigrants do farm work. Immigrants (legal and illegal) do make up a large share of agricultural workers — accounting for half or more of some types of farm laborers — but all agricultural workers together constitute less than 1 percent of the American work force.
• Many occupations often thought to be worked overwhelmingly by immigrants (legal and illegal) are in fact majority native-born:
  • Maids and housekeepers: 51 percent native-born
  • Taxi drivers and chauffeurs: 54 percent native-born
  • Butchers and meat processors: 64 percent native-born
  • Grounds maintenance workers: 66 percent native-born
  • Construction laborers: 65 percent native-born
  • Janitors: 73 percent native-born
  •  
  • https://cis.org/Report/There-Are-No-Jobs-Americans-Wont-Do

[jross]

1 minute ago, red viking said:

Yah; Republicans now want higher wages. OMG, the hypocrisy is unreal. 

Will you say more about that?

Who doesn’t want max pay for less work, quality goods/services for cheap, or bigger profits? That's not hypocrisy... That's not only Republicans.

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

They actually are net contributors to the economy, with their willingness to take on low paying jobs that nobody else wants, and also being disproportionately young so that they aren't sucking the govt teet. 

No one is sucking that teet 

Here’s a comprehensive breakdown of federal, state, and local government spending on undocumented immigrants (commonly referred to as “illegal immigrants”) in recent years:

---

Federal Spending

• Medicaid emergency services provided to undocumented immigrants have cost $16.2 billion since the start of the Biden administration arrington.house.gov+15budget.house.gov+15thenationaldesk.com+15.

• A GOP analysis (FAIR) suggests total federal spending—including healthcare, education, welfare, border enforcement—reached $66 billion in the latest year .

• The nonpartisan CBO reported that undocumented immigrants contributed $96.7 billion in taxes, including ~$59.4 billion federal and ~$37.3 billion state/local income itep.org.

---

State & Local Spending

National Estimates:

• State and local governments reportedly spent $115 billion on undocumented immigrants, totaling $150 billion in fiscal outlays when combined with federal funds poynter.org+10cbsaustin.com+10nypost.com+10.

By State & City:

• California: Around $22 billion in 2022 cbsaustin.com+1thenationaldesk.com+1.

• Texas: ~$9 billion .

• New York: ~$10 billion over recent years arrington.house.gov+13cbsaustin.com+13nypost.com+13.

• Illinois: Included in FAIR's top spending group (~$115 billion total).

• New York City alone spent $308 million since July 2023 and is on pace for nearly $10 billion over 3 yearscbsaustin.com+1thenationaldesk.com+1.

• New York State separately allocated $4.3 billion from 2022–23 through 2025–26 for asylum seeker/emergency migrant costs, spending $1.66 billion through March 2025

[mspart]

152,  the analogy works whether you want it to or not.   It has been demonstrated very clearly here.  

mspart