LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said: This man is really trying to state "he can definitely beat up some runts and mids in the c league" as fact LOL. Show us on the doll where Spencer Lee touch you.. would it be too much to ask for a more original internet insult?
bnwtwg Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 Spencer Lee is such a bum... Call LBJ when he wins a real tournament at the senior level, like 2019 Senior Nationals... No respect until then, because a preteen mean-mugged another preteen how many years ago... i am an idiot on the internet
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: Spencer Lee is such a bum... Call LBJ when he wins a real tournament at the senior level, like 2019 Senior Nationals... No respect until then, because a preteen mean-mugged another preteen how many years ago... i get you consider anything even less than absolute compliments to mean someone thinks your fav is bum... i also get you think senior nationals is a big deal... when my 19 year old made the senior national finals last year i was pretty pumped... but... 2019 senior nationals with no fix or gilman... not sure i would be waving that banner with as much fervor...
Ponzi Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 What's the deal with all these suggestions that Lee ruined his knees (or his body or his life) by participating in NCAA wrestling. If the idea is that he will never be great as freestyle on the senior level, that remains to be seen. But as far as I can tell every U.S. freestyle medalist except one (Henry Cejudo) wrestled in college. There does not seem to be any other reliable path to excelling on in the international level.
Jamie_Taco Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Ponzi said: What's the deal with all these suggestions that Lee ruined his knees (or his body or his life) by participating in NCAA wrestling. If the idea is that he will never be great as freestyle on the senior level, that remains to be seen. But as far as I can tell every U.S. freestyle medalist except one (Henry Cejudo) wrestled in college. There does not seem to be any other reliable path to excelling on in the international level. It's Iowa hate, plain and simple. It's the same thing with downplaying Spencer Lee's cadet and junior world titles, as well as his 2019 US Open championship. BuT fIx AnD gIlMaN wErEn'T iN tHe BrAcKeT I'm sure LJB is also one of those people who believes Spencer wasn't the reason TG left IC.
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, Jamie_Taco said: It's Iowa hate, plain and simple. It's the same thing with downplaying Spencer Lee's cadet and junior world titles, as well as his 2019 US Open championship. BuT fIx AnD gIlMaN wErEn'T iN tHe BrAcKeT I'm sure LJB is also one of those people who believes Spencer wasn't the reason TG left IC. ugh... just for the record for those painfully average posters and their painfully average takes... i like iowa... i like the brands... i like spencer lee... i like tough wrestling... i am a greco guy, so, poo style tough wrestling is a bit of snickering point for me, but, whatever... one of my kids wrestled for a cadet bronze at cadet worlds in 2021... he was 15... he lost... he was bummed... so was i... but it was cadets... it legitimately does not matter... there is no statistical correlation between cadet success and senior success... that is a fact... i was way more bummed when my other kid got the paws put on him at junior worlds last year... so was he because that is when it starts to actually show that you are on the right path... again, spencer lee's junior gold came at 50kg... that is a child... there is no statistical correlation between 50kg juniors and senior success... i believe when this was a topic at the time it actually happened we found one 50kg in the history of ever that actually won a senior medal... it could have been two... whatever senior nationals is a step... that is it... and if your main domestic challenges do not even bother to show up, then , it is just a big piece of wood at the end of it... for most the reality of being good enough at anything to say "national champ" is something so far out of reach it does seem like a much bigger deal... there are levels to this shit...
Ponzi Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, LJB said: ugh... just for the record for those painfully average posters and their painfully average takes... i like iowa... i like the brands... i like spencer lee... i like tough wrestling... i am a greco guy, so, poo style tough wrestling is a bit of snickering point for me, but, whatever... one of my kids wrestled for a cadet bronze at cadet worlds in 2021... he was 15... he lost... he was bummed... so was i... but it was cadets... it legitimately does not matter... there is no statistical correlation between cadet success and senior success... that is a fact... i was way more bummed when my other kid got the paws put on him at junior worlds last year... so was he because that is when it starts to actually show that you are on the right path... again, spencer lee's junior gold came at 50kg... that is a child... there is no statistical correlation between 50kg juniors and senior success... i believe when this was a topic at the time it actually happened we found one 50kg in the history of ever that actually won a senior medal... it could have been two... whatever senior nationals is a step... that is it... and if your main domestic challenges do not even bother to show up, then , it is just a big piece of wood at the end of it... for most the reality of being good enough at anything to say "national champ" is something so far out of reach it does seem like a much bigger deal... there are levels to this shit... I am not sure that everything you say about statistical correlation is correct. But I will accept it. In any event, there certainly is a strong color statistical correlation between NCAA success and worlds senior level of success. That is almost every US wrestler (not all, there are exceptions) who won a world senior medal also won an NCAA medal.
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ponzi said: I am not sure that everything you say about statistical correlation is correct. But I will accept it. In any event, there certainly is a strong color statistical correlation between NCAA success and worlds senior level of success. That is almost every US wrestler (not all, there are exceptions) who won a world senior medal also won an NCAA medal. that is only because this country is too jingoistic... if our best athletes spent those years actually learning how to wrestle instead of beating themselves up... destroying their bodies... learning how to run to the edge for safety, back straight out of bounds, and lay on someone to earn 3-2 victory by a ride time... do you think they would be better prepared for long term international success? look at the average age of world medalists... it isn't 33... it is much closer to 23... when our best are wasting away trying to perfect a cross body ride... just because that is the common path does not mean it is the best path... anyone who chooses to do something different faces ridicule from the entire country... it is just super small minded thinking...
VakAttack Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 The way @LJB and others (but primarily LJB) are talking, you would think Spencer Lee retired 6 years ago and we're assessing his career in retrospect. We all understand he's still wrestling, correct? 1
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 spencer lee is already 24 years old... with two bad wheels... wasting time... and at the weight most dependent on quickness... half a step at 57 is not even making the team... i sincerely hope he makes a team and wins a gold medal... as many as can... it would legitimately make me happy... but... 100% vs 100%... i still pick gilman and that was 2 years ago... that gap has just widening as we speak because gilman is actually getting better and spencer still gets tired... again... if i am wrong it will not make me unhappy one tiny little bit... what most see as lee or iowa hate (such an average take) is more disgust with how this country wants their wrestlers to be worse internationally than better... and for what?
PortaJohn Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 30 minutes ago, VakAttack said: The way @LJB and others (but primarily LJB) are talking, you would think Spencer Lee retired 6 years ago and we're assessing his career in retrospect. We all understand he's still wrestling, correct? What I'm getting from @LJB is he thinks Lee is wasting precious time chasing a 4th title that to him is somewhat meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Correct me if I'm wrong LJB. I Don't Agree With What I Posted
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, PortaJohn said: What I'm getting from @LJB is he thinks Lee is wasting precious time chasing a 4th title that to him is somewhat meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Correct me if I'm wrong LJB. i will do you one further... he should have never bothered with his senior High School year... he should have been focused on nothing but world and olympic medals from the moment he truly believed he could do it... there are plenty of wrestlers that can fit into a black adult extra small singlet...
Ponzi Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 39 minutes ago, LJB said: that is only because this country is too jingoistic... if our best athletes spent those years actually learning how to wrestle instead of beating themselves up... destroying their bodies... learning how to run to the edge for safety, back straight out of bounds, and lay on someone to earn 3-2 victory by a ride time... do you think they would be better prepared for long term international success? look at the average age of world medalists... it isn't 33... it is much closer to 23... when our best are wasting away trying to perfect a cross body ride... just because that is the common path does not mean it is the best path... anyone who chooses to do something different faces ridicule from the entire country... it is just super small minded thinking... "just because that is the common path does not mean it is the best path..." It pretty much does mean that. Right or wrong, it's the only viable path in this country. Maybe the powers that be could or should create a different path. But until they do, the decision to wrestle in college is the right one for anyone who aims for international success.
PortaJohn Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ponzi said: It pretty much does mean that. Right or wrong, it's the only viable path in this country. Maybe the powers that be could or should create a different path. But until they do, the decision to wrestle in college is the right one for anyone who aims for international success. Is this actually true? Henry Cejudo never stepped on a college mat and I'd lay money on Aaron Pico being our rep if he chose Freestyle over MMA with no plans of ever attending college. 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Ponzi said: "just because that is the common path does not mean it is the best path..." It pretty much does mean that. Right or wrong, it's the only viable path in this country. Maybe the powers that be could or should create a different path. But until they do, the decision to wrestle in college is the right one for anyone who aims for international success. it is 100% not the only viable path... it is just the most common and the one that is expected by those that want to use our athletes to prop up a scummy organization... doing something for the sole reason that it has always been done like that is such small minded thinking... cejudo pico all proved there are different paths... my youngest quit folk after his freshmen year because it is awful... he was a state finalist at his walk around as a freshmen... he is now a national champ and an age level world team member... getting ready to move into the OTC so he has the best chance to actually win medals... there are options out there you just have to be willing to go against the grain at times...
The Bog Man Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 36 minutes ago, LJB said: spencer lee is already 24 years old... with two bad wheels... wasting time... and at the weight most dependent on quickness... half a step at 57 is not even making the team... i sincerely hope he makes a team and wins a gold medal... as many as can... it would legitimately make me happy... but... 100% vs 100%... i still pick gilman and that was 2 years ago... that gap has just widening as we speak because gilman is actually getting better and spencer still gets tired... again... if i am wrong it will not make me unhappy one tiny little bit... what most see as lee or iowa hate (such an average take) is more disgust with how this country wants their wrestlers to be worse internationally than better... and for what? Uhm, a college degree?
bnwtwg Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, LJB said: i get you consider anything even less than absolute compliments to mean someone thinks your fav is bum... i also get you think senior nationals is a big deal... when my 19 year old made the senior national finals last year i was pretty pumped... but... 2019 senior nationals with no fix or gilman... not sure i would be waving that banner with as much fervor... He beat the following in his bracket: 2022 senior worlds 9th place Darian Cruz 2020ne OTT 2nd place Vito Arujau. 2022 2nd place. You may recall that Vito beat Fix at OTT. 2020ne third place Nate Tomasello Also in that bracket was 2020ne 4th place Zane Richards and Nick Suriano - depending who you ask, he has also found success including winning a UWW ranking tourney (2021 Deglane) that Gilman attended and did not win. That is not exactly a chump change bracket. Edited January 26, 2023 by bnwtwg forgot Vito's 2022 silver i am an idiot on the internet
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 i have a college degree... never wrestled a day in my life...
Eagle26 Posted January 26, 2023 Author Posted January 26, 2023 I agree with that point and I wish Lee had gone more of the Snyder route. I think if he could’ve stayed healthy, he would be on course to be an all time great, but things did not work out that way, and he is clearly not anywhere near an all time great as far as international accolades. However, I think it’s fair to recognize he has that same talent. To discredit his age level world titles because they were at the lightest weight is just not fair. I’m sure 50kg for 15-16 year olds is not nearly as rare as 57kg for full grown men, and we don’t discredit 57kg seniors, do we? He is a small guy dominating other guys his size. He won three age level world titles teching and pinning everyone in all three tournaments except for one finals opponent. Think about that! Also, I believe he wanted to challenge himself and wrestle up to try to grow into a senior weight class when he lost to Fix at 54kg. I would bet Fix cut more to get to 54 than Lee did to get to 50. In other words, Lee totally dominated everyone his own size, and lost a super close best of 3 when he went up 8% of his body weight to face Fix - a world medalist at every age level.
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, bnwtwg said: He beat the following in his bracket: 2022 senior worlds 9th place Darian Cruz 2020ne OTT 2nd place Vito Arujau. You may recall that Vito beat Fix at OTT. 2020ne third place Nate Tomasello Also in that bracket was 2022 4th place Zane Richards and Nick Suriano - depending who you ask, he has also found success including winning a UWW ranking tourney (2021 Deglane) that Gilman attended and did not win. That is not exactly a chump change bracket. did not say it was a chump bracket... said gilman and fix were not in it... those would be our world and olympic reps at that weight for how many years? they didn't show up to that tourney because it meant nothing... lee had to show up to qualify for trials... seriously people... just the tiniest little bit of nuance...
bnwtwg Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 When you go out to eat do you ask the waitress for a giant sugar cube for that high horse of yours? i am an idiot on the internet
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Eagle26 said: I agree with that point and I wish Lee had gone more of the Snyder route. I think if he could’ve stayed healthy, he would be on course to be an all time great, but things did not work out that way, and he is clearly not anywhere near an all time great as far as international accolades. However, I think it’s fair to recognize he has that same talent. To discredit his age level world titles because they were at the lightest weight is just not fair. I’m sure 50kg for 15-16 year olds is not nearly as rare as 57kg for full grown men, and we don’t discredit 57kg seniors, do we? He is a small guy dominating other guys his size. He won three age level world titles teching and pinning everyone in all three tournaments except for one finals opponent. Think about that! Also, I believe he wanted to challenge himself and wrestle up to try to grow into a senior weight class when he lost to Fix at 54kg. I would bet Fix cut more to get to 54 than Lee did to get to 50. In other words, Lee totally dominated everyone his own size, and lost a super close best of 3 when he went up 8% of his body weight to face Fix - a world medalist at every age level. i saw lee before trials trying to make weight for 50kg juniors... he looked like a damn ghost... as bad as anyone i have ever seen... that is not to say fix doesn't pull some weight, but, don't make up stuff to fit what you want to have happened... lee did not want to go to 50 at all... he had to because he got dropped in 2 straight... and 50kg for 20 year old's is incredibly small... but... find more than one 50kg junior medalist that has medaled at seniors... ever... take as much time as you want...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, bnwtwg said: When you go out to eat do you ask the waitress for a giant sugar cube for that high horse of yours? my horses don't go in for that manufactured poison... apples and apples alone baby...
PortaJohn Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Eagle26 said: I agree with that point and I wish Lee had gone more of the Snyder route. I think if he could’ve stayed healthy, he would be on course to be an all time great, but things did not work out that way, and he is clearly not anywhere near an all time great as far as international accolades. However, I think it’s fair to recognize he has that same talent. Has anyone actually questioned Lee's talent? Questioning his strategy to continue to wrestle in college with the injuries he's sustained doesn't make anyone a Lee doubter. I personally think Spencer has somewhat of a "Iowa savior" complex that might hinder his International career down the road. Edited January 26, 2023 by PortaJohn I Don't Agree With What I Posted
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Posted January 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Has anyone actually questioned Lee's talent? to be fair... i have made the assertion he is not a technical wrestler... that seems to be akin to slapping his momma... apologies all around...
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