US just dropped Bombs on 3 nuclear sites. Fordow, Natanz and Esfahan.

[mspart]

I have to admit and I said this in other threads, I didn't think Trump would do this.   I thought he would continue talking.   I admit I was wrong about it.   I'm not sure how I think about it.   Supportive and not supportive.

1.  If Iran wanted a civilian use (electricity) nuclear program, no one thinks they shouldn't.    I don't think so.   But if that is their aim, why are they creating nuclear fuel that surpasses that which is necessary and come to nuclear armaments?   Why do they have centrifuges that are way more capable than what it is they need for a civilian program?

2.   If Iran is cagey about this, why the caginess.   I know  people on here say  they were on their stated target and not doing anything wrong.   60% enriched uranium is something not needed for civilian use.   So it seems there are two stories that are contradicting each other. 

3.   They are the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world.   They fund Hamas and Hezbollah.   They fund the Houthis.   They fund international terrorism.   So they are not the good guys.  

4.   I understand that Israel wants to take away the Iranian threat to their survival. 

5.   I am not sure about our involvement.   I did not think it would go this way and I'm not sure I am fully supportive.  But the targets were not population centers, they were nuclear sites with minimal people.   So they were strategic sites, not population centers.  

6.  Some say Trump is a terrible negotiator.   Iran, like me, didn't think Trump would do this.   But they now know, as do we, that Trump wants to negotiate with Iran.   But he won't be toyed with.   60 days were given as a time to negotiate, on day 61, Israel struck.   So Iran rolled the dice that history would repeat itself and it didn't.  

7.  Trump continued to want to negotiate and Iran continued not to negotiate in good faith.   Trump has intimated that they can take out Iranian leadership and have done some of that.   He obviously wants to come to an agreement with Iran.  

8.  As you can see, I find way more reasons for this action than reasons not to.  But I am still on the fence about it.   I am not totally surprised it happened, but am surprised that it did.  

That is where I am with this.   Now that it has happened, I hope it turns out to be a good thing in the end.  

mspart

[Tripnsweep]

It's not sleeper cells that are a concern. It's Iranians who are here who are mad because the US is bombing their homeland for bull*I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* reasons. 

[Scouts Honor]

lol

anything to project your hatred of the USA

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Paul158]

54 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

It's not sleeper cells that are a concern. It's Iranians who are here who are mad because the US is bombing their homeland for bull*I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* reasons. 

We have democrats that are mad all the time. They are peacefully rioting as we speak. We have the liberal media mad all the time stirring up the pot all the time. They are encouraging, inciting these nut jobs that is ok to damage cars, businesses and to shoot at presidential candidates. They have actually had 2 tries so far. 

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, mspart said:

I have to admit and I said this in other threads, I didn't think Trump would do this.   I thought he would continue talking.   I admit I was wrong about it.   I'm not sure how I think about it.   Supportive and not supportive.

1.  If Iran wanted a civilian use (electricity) nuclear program, no one thinks they shouldn't.    I don't think so.   But if that is their aim, why are they creating nuclear fuel that surpasses that which is necessary and come to nuclear armaments?   Why do they have centrifuges that are way more capable than what it is they need for a civilian program?

2.   If Iran is cagey about this, why the caginess.   I know  people on here say  they were on their stated target and not doing anything wrong.   60% enriched uranium is something not needed for civilian use.   So it seems there are two stories that are contradicting each other. 

3.   They are the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world.   They fund Hamas and Hezbollah.   They fund the Houthis.   They fund international terrorism.   So they are not the good guys.  

4.   I understand that Israel wants to take away the Iranian threat to their survival. 

5.   I am not sure about our involvement.   I did not think it would go this way and I'm not sure I am fully supportive.  But the targets were not population centers, they were nuclear sites with minimal people.   So they were strategic sites, not population centers.  

6.  Some say Trump is a terrible negotiator.   Iran, like me, didn't think Trump would do this.   But they now know, as do we, that Trump wants to negotiate with Iran.   But he won't be toyed with.   60 days were given as a time to negotiate, on day 61, Israel struck.   So Iran rolled the dice that history would repeat itself and it didn't.  

7.  Trump continued to want to negotiate and Iran continued not to negotiate in good faith.   Trump has intimated that they can take out Iranian leadership and have done some of that.   He obviously wants to come to an agreement with Iran.  

8.  As you can see, I find way more reasons for this action than reasons not to.  But I am still on the fence about it.   I am not totally surprised it happened, but am surprised that it did.  

That is where I am with this.   Now that it has happened, I hope it turns out to be a good thing in the end.  

mspart

1-They were obviously trying to build nuclear bombs. They were always going to.

They're too weak. Their military is weak. This is why they fund attacks on Israel, they cannot actually stand toe to toe with Israel. 

They want it as a deterrent, to be taken seriously, to use it on Israel...that you can question, but after 2018, they've again been working toward Nuclear Weapons. 

2-I don't know if they were cagey about it... I honestly didn't pay much attention after we pulled out of the agreement where they said they wouldn't pursue nuclear weapons. You could argue they were being "cagey" then, but our State Department and the Civilian Oversight committee made up of the top minds in the field(the same IAEA we used as a source this time to say they were enriching uranium) all said they were adhereing to the rules set forth. 

3-Nope. At least the Govt. 

4-And Iran wants to take away Israel entirely. 

5-I'm good with it. No civilians as you say and...Iran could be an enormous source for good in the Region...IF the people raise up. If you start killing civillians, they'll hate us no matter what. If they overthrow the Ayatollah, perhaps we could get back to the relationship we had in the 70s. 

6-I don't think Trump is a good negotiator, but Iran had little choice but to call his bluff. They need to be a Nuclear power.

Their leader was in hiding, we'd taken out several of their top military leaders.

The US Military vs Iran is...well, FA'ed and FO in '88 with Operation Preying Mantis when we took our the majority of their Navy...and we didn't even want to. That wasn't the plan, but a couple ships fired on us and we just obliterated them. 

 

7-...maybe. I don't know what they'd negotiate. But sure.

8-I'd feel a lot better if Israel stopped bombing other Countries if we're to contain this. 

 

Now Russia is running their mouth. I still think very little of Trump, but we only got involved because we had to. There was no other choice. If Israel could have, we'd have given them the Bombs and they'd have flown them... but they didn't. 

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

It's not sleeper cells that are a concern. It's Iranians who are here who are mad because the US is bombing their homeland for bull*I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* reasons. 

I strongly disagree. They didn't attack civilians and the Iranians who live in the US are ALMOST all those who fled when they overthrew the Shah and they'll have no sympathy for Iranian Nuclear Bunkers being blown up.  

The threats are sleeper cellls who are here from Isis or those weird kids who join up or...the long wolf.

 

But it's America. That happens every-single-day. There's only so much we can do about that. 

[Offthemat]

I haven’t seen Kahmieny in days.

[scourge165]

57 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I haven’t seen Kahmieny in days.

Oh....NM, I got. The Ayatollah Khamenei.

 

Yeah...he's kept a pretty low profile...shockingly. 

Edited 14 hours ago by scourge165

[mspart]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-iran-live-updates-irans-khamenei-punishment-israel/?id=123109706

Trump announces a cease fire between Israel and Iran.   This is great news if it holds.

mspart

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, mspart said:

This is great news if it holds.

 

[JimmySpeaks]

8 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

It's not sleeper cells that are a concern. It's Iranians who are here who are mad because the US is bombing their homeland for bull*I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* reasons. 

You can’t really be stupid enough to believe this right? 

[Tripnsweep]

7 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I strongly disagree. They didn't attack civilians and the Iranians who live in the US are ALMOST all those who fled when they overthrew the Shah and they'll have no sympathy for Iranian Nuclear Bunkers being blown up.  

The threats are sleeper cellls who are here from Isis or those weird kids who join up or...the long wolf.

 

But it's America. That happens every-single-day. There's only so much we can do about that. 

It doesn't matter if they attacked industrial areas or not. You'd be mad if somebody bombed your home country. Most probably wouldn't take action, but there's always a chance that there's those few who would take it seriously. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

4 hours ago, mspart said:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-iran-live-updates-irans-khamenei-punishment-israel/?id=123109706

Trump announces a cease fire between Israel and Iran.   This is great news if it holds.

mspart

It might be a good thing if it wasn't just another Trump lie.

This time Trump is desperately trying to spin the fact that he just stepped into giant pile of poo. He was manipulated like a child by real world leaders.

Not a peep from either Israel or Iran. They aren't playing along.

Edited 10 hours ago by GreatWhiteNorth

[JimmySpeaks]

10 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

It might be a good thing if it wasn't just another Trump lie.

This time Trump is desperately trying to spin the fact that he just stepped into giant pile of poo. He was manipulated like a child by real world leaders.

Not a peep from either Israel or Iran. They aren't playing along.

They have no choice but to “play along” 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

4 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

They have no choice but to “play along” 

You mean if they don't actually engage in a cease fire? That choice?

I do believe they easily have that one (among others.)

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, GreatWhiteNorth said:

You mean if they don't actually engage in a cease fire? That choice?

I do believe they easily have that one (among others.)

Ya. Let’s see what happens if they don’t 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

1 minute ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Ya. Let’s see what happens if they don’t 

True. Can't argue with that. We shall see soon enough.

Hope it's not another forever war in the making - that'd be bad all the way around.

[JimmySpeaks]

3 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

True. Can't argue with that. We shall see soon enough.

Hope it's not another forever war in the making - that'd be bad all the way around.

Other than terrorism how many FOREVER wars are we currently in? 

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Other than terrorism how many FOREVER wars are we currently in? 

Obama bombed 7 countries that we know of.  How may forever wars did you accuse him of starting?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

35 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Obama bombed 7 countries that we know of.  How may forever wars did you accuse him of starting?

All of the ones he did... at the time. Same for GHW. Same for Clinton. Same for GW. Etc. etc. I don't play favorites.

BUT we're living in the here and now.

As interesting as history is, we've got a whole lot of bad on our hands right now - happening based on the actions the current administration is taking right now. 

Not a great time for serious people to try to bring up old political BS talking points. That'd be the wrong focus.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Tripnsweep said:

It doesn't matter if they attacked industrial areas or not. You'd be mad if somebody bombed your home country. Most probably wouldn't take action, but there's always a chance that there's those few who would take it seriously. 

Yeah, I just have a different opinion on this than you. 

When the Ayatollah took over, he took their most wealthiest business man and...strung him up like it was Rome. Let him hang. 80,000 Jews left, up to FIVE MILLION Iranians in total were ran from their homeland.

 

So yeah, not only do I NOT believe they'd be upset, I believe they'd be celebrating it. I don't use anecdotal examples on here because...it's always too convenient and it always fits a person's preconceived narrative(though...I'm not exactly a Trump apologist I think you'll admit)... but I've just seen and spoken with SOO many people who've said things like "Iran isn't your enemy, the "Islamic Republic," is.

 

The women there...not to keep going back to it, but they wore swimsuits and they drank and they went out and it was a prosperous country, Jews lived there without fear. They LOVED American Culture(hence the term "the White Revolution."

 

All of that was stolen from them or their parents. 

 

I don't think the Cubans in the South of Florida would be upset if we bombed industrial sites. I think they'd rejoice. This isn't just "we bombed their homeland," this is "we bombed the land that they were run out of because the State wanted to rule with an Iron Fist and control how you could live your life and if you speak out(or spoke out) you could expect to be...executed. 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

It might be a good thing if it wasn't just another Trump lie.

This time Trump is desperately trying to spin the fact that he just stepped into giant pile of poo. He was manipulated like a child by real world leaders.

Not a peep from either Israel or Iran. They aren't playing along.

Both can be true.

Trump is a well known liar and worried about his image. He's also terrified of being the President who makes a mistake like Bush did with Iran. I suspect there will be people who will say, as we did after the first Iraq War, we should have gone further and taken out the leadership.

 

But...Trump doesn't want that. 

Now, lets look why each side would agree to peace.

 

Iran-They are helpless in ANY manner of actual military conflict.

Israel- They got what they wanted. They may want to go further, but->

The USA- Trump's approval rating has PLUMMETED from this. I'm honestly baffled as I...don't see this as an over the top of irrational act. But people don't like it, Trump cares about that. 
Trump also does not want War. Of all the issues I have with Trump, he's... about as anti-War President as we've had for...a while. I don't think Carter and Trump's name belong in the same sentence, but on this front...they may. 

 

So it's pretty simple. If Israel really wants to continue this, the USA can pull their support. You take away American support and not Israel becomes much more vulnerable and they risk EASILY their most important ally. 

 

This isn't so much Trump's negotiating skill, it's the full force of easily the world's strongest military. 

 

-I think the ceasefire will continue. It's a matter of Russia or another Country and that silly bluff to arm Iran. THAT...would be bad and lead to a Global conflict. 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Obama bombed 7 countries that we know of.  How may forever wars did you accuse him of starting?

You're pretty obsessed with this. 

I'm not accusing Trump of starting any War(though...YOU did accuse Biden of being responsible for two Wars and he fired no shots).

 

But conflating drone strikes against terrorists with taking out a Countries ENTIRE Nuclear System with over a DOZEN 30,000 pound MOPs?

Yeah, this isn't the argument you seem to think it is.