Article about the rise of a Dual State

[Scouts Honor]

52 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

 

Conservatives want order. They want hierarchies to be enforced because they believe they are correct. They don't want society to change or evolve. It's literally in the name: Conservatives. That instinct always puts Conservatives in tension with civil democratic institutions and rights. 

 

is this anything like vaxxed and unvaxxed?

 

[Offthemat]

7 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

There are many strains of "radical" feminism.

And how does that knowledge apply to your job at Pay Less Shoes?

[jross]

36 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

1. Conservatives want order.
2. They want hierarchies to be enforced because they believe they are correct.
3. They don't want society to change or evolve. It's literally in the name: Conservatives.
4. That instinct always puts Conservatives in tension with civil democratic institutions and rights. 
5. The reason Conservatives love Trump so much is he's willing to actually say he doesn't believe in that stuff. That's what they love.
6. No, you can't marry who you want.
7. No, you can't identify as whatever gender you want.
8. No, you can't protest who you want.
9. No, you can't teach the subjects you want.
10. It's all about telling people they disagree with "No."
11. We're in charge, and we decide what you're allowed to believe and do. 

You went too big on absolutes and seem to miss that Conservatives care less about what your believe and do, so long at your actions do not effect them.  You got 1, 5, and 9 mostly correct.  Perhaps partial credit on the rest... but largely wrong through gross oversimplifications. 

A better course topic: "Analyzing Accuracy in Understanding Ideological Beliefs: Evaluating Correct and Incorrect Representations of Conservatism and Other Ideologies."

[Scouts Honor]

52 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

 

The reason Conservatives love Trump so much is he's willing to actually say he doesn't believe in that stuff. That's what they love. No, you can't marry who you want. No, you can't identify as whatever gender you want. No, you can't protest who you want. No, you can't teach the subjects you want. It's all about telling people they disagree with "No." We're in charge, and we decide what you're allowed to believe and do. 

Trump wasn't against same sex marriage. however, clinton and obama both were. biden too.

gender. no one is saying they can't identify and dress how they want. conservatives are saying they dont belong in womens locker rooms, restrooms or sports.

protesting would be fine. if they don't destroy property and stay off the highway. leftists cried for weeks when chris christie blocked a bridge b/c, omg they might need an ambulance. 

who is stopping colleges from teaching the subjects they want? those classes have existed for decades and no one calling for them to be banned. we just ridicule them and laugh when they can't find a job.

and let me tell you... liberals tell people no all the time. b/c some pigs are more equal. for the last few years, women have been told NO, YOU MUST LET THEM IN YOUR SPACE.

 

[uncle bernard]

17 minutes ago, jross said:

What percentage of people have you encountered who aren’t overly sensitive to disagreements? Hardly any exist overall, and they’re practically unicorns among those under 22.

Pointing fingers just at conservatives shows your own biased “education.”

I think you're spending too much time on the internet if you think this is true.

My college friend group included a communist and an investment banker. The three of us are going on a trip at the end of the month!

And I'll point the finger at myself here too. Most conservatives probably aren't hyper-agitated culture warriors like the crew on here. Most of them just live normal lives. It's good practice to remember that. The same goes for liberals. 

If you act normal towards other people, they'll act normal towards you, most of the time. If you constantly find yourself in conflict with people you disagree with, you probably only need to look in the mirror to find out why.

[Scouts Honor]

32 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Anecdotal.

And anecdotally, I can tell you every Conservative I've met who had this complaint viewed any sort of disagreement as an attack. And their work is usually bad too. They think they got a bad grade on their essay because of their opinions, but it's actually because they write like Caveira and didn't support any part of their argument with evidence.

what do you suppose makes up a set of data?

anecdotes.

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

You went too big on absolutes and seem to miss that Conservatives care less about what your believe and do, so long at your actions do not effect them.  You got 1, 5, and 9 mostly correct.  Perhaps partial credit on the rest... but largely wrong through gross oversimplifications. 

A better course topic: "Analyzing Accuracy in Understanding Ideological Beliefs: Evaluating Correct and Incorrect Representations of Conservatism and Other Ideologies."

Well, yeah, that's what rhetorical speech does. We'd be wasting our time if we had to put qualifications after every word we write. 

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Scouts Honor said:

what do you suppose makes up a set of data?

anecdotes.

Okay, so once Max presents his papers for public analysis along with the grading rubrics of the class, we can file his case in our study. Once we do that for another 100,000 students, we might actually have a valuable data set!

[Offthemat]

30 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Anecdotal.

And anecdotally, I can tell you every Conservative I've met who had this complaint viewed any sort of disagreement as an attack. And their work is usually bad too. They think they got a bad grade on their essay because of their opinions, but it's actually because they write like Caveira and didn't support any part of their argument with evidence.

Anecdotal?  Widespread is more like it, especially at the supposedly elites. 
 

Why would they be grading on anything besides content?  Writing skills were supposed to be mastered before college.

[red viking]

Before 1939 Nazi Germany, there was 1933 Nazi Germany. 

[whaletail]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

University of Chicago is a very left Leaning college.  

Never heard of Richard Posner?

Chicago's law school and econ department aren't left leaning at all.

[jross]

10 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Yes. That's quite reasonable because the point of college is to educate. It's not a jobs training program. That doesn't mean she has to agree with the topics.

Take your alternate class example. I think you'd be shocked to learn how much those different schools of feminism disagree with each other. For example, liberal feminism corporate aspirations (think "Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg). Marxist feminism would be more focused on women as workers and how they may be exploited in modern society - for example, thousands of hours of unpaid domestic labor. There are many strains of "radical" feminism. That could encompass anybody from Valerie Solanas (SCUM Manifesto and shot Andy Warhol) to modern day TERFs who are vehemently anti-transgenderism.

The college's job is to educate you, not cater to your every belief. You aren't a customer. 

I believe requiring feminism in a critical thinking curriculum is inappropriate because it often advocates specific social views over neutral analytical skills. In my critical thinking class, we debated open topics like elderly driving or banning SUVs, allowing diverse perspectives without mandating specialized subjects. With tuition averaging higher $$$$, it’s reasonable for students to expect a say in their curriculum.

[mspart]

38 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Anecdotal.

And anecdotally, I can tell you every Conservative I've met who had this complaint viewed any sort of disagreement as an attack. And their work is usually bad too. They think they got a bad grade on their essay because of their opinions, but it's actually because they write like Caveira and didn't support any part of their argument with evidence.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/2/19/moss-harvard-free-speech-dead/

Free Speech is Dead at Harvard. I Doubt It’s Returning Anytime Soon.

The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression free speech rankings — which place Harvard dead last — have been downplayed by University leadership. But let me tell you: Harvard deserves it.

According to the University’s 2024 senior survey, only one-third of the graduating class feel comfortable expressing their opinions about controversial topics on campus in general, and nearly half are hesitant to do so even in a supposedly sacrosanct classroom setting.

Anecdotally of course. 

mspart

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Anecdotal?  Widespread is more like it, especially at the supposedly elites. 
 

Why would they be grading on anything besides content?  Writing skills were supposed to be mastered before college.

Well, first off, writing skills aren't mastered before college. Half the kids who get into college these days are functionally illiterate.

Setting that aside, you can't disambiguate skill and content. If you turn in a paper in a college class with a great argument, but it's written with awful grammar and no structure, you don't deserve a good grade.

I've turned papers in that directly contradicted the beliefs of the professor. I got good grades because I conveyed my argument clearly and supported it with evidence from the required texts. 

 

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

I've turned papers in that directly contradicted the beliefs of the professor. I got good grades because I conveyed my argument clearly and supported it with evidence from the required texts. 

Not lately you haven’t.  They’re 75-80% AI nowadays. 

[uncle bernard]

5 minutes ago, jross said:

I believe requiring feminism in a critical thinking curriculum is inappropriate because it often advocates specific social views over neutral analytical skills. In my critical thinking class, we debated open topics like elderly driving or banning SUVs, allowing diverse perspectives without mandating specialized subjects. With tuition averaging higher $$$$, it’s reasonable for students to expect a say in their curriculum.

Should colleges be allowed to teach a class on Christianity? What about free-market economics? Conservatism? Marxism? Mormonism? Anarchism? Authoritarianism? 

All those subjects have internal belief systems that advocate specific social views, just like feminism. 

The point of making students take those classes is that they teach them about the world they live in. 

Your daughter isn't going to be taught feminism as doctrine. She's going to be taught *about* feminism and what feminists believe. She'll be graded on her ability to describe those things (exam) and/or analyze/critique (essay). Actually believing those things is not a requirement.

[wrestlingguy]

25 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

2. You could just be normal and ignore it then. Instead, conservatives constantly try to get people fired from their teaching jobs just for being openly gay or trans

If you ignore it, you get labeled as some sort of phobe or ism. The whole idea is attention seeking. 

I have never heard anyone calling for a teacher to lose their job because they are gay or trans. Must be like the trans in women's sports, rare.

[Scouts Honor]

16 minutes ago, red viking said:

Before 1939 Nazi Germany, there was 1933 Nazi Germany. 

wait. are you saying there was a slippery slope?

[uncle bernard]

3 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Not lately you haven’t.  They’re 75-80% AI nowadays. 

You can't even put coherent thoughts together. This doesn't address anything I said. Your operate on random word association based on your emotions. That's all you do.

[Scouts Honor]

10 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Well, first off, writing skills aren't mastered before college. Half the kids who get into college these days are functionally illiterate.

Setting that aside, you can't disambiguate skill and content. If you turn in a paper in a college class with a great argument, but it's written with awful grammar and no structure, you don't deserve a good grade.

I've turned papers in that directly contradicted the beliefs of the professor. I got good grades because I conveyed my argument clearly and supported it with evidence from the required texts. 

 

thanks to all the critical thinking the public school system has them do?

they miss that time writing? 

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, wrestlingguy said:

If you ignore it, you get labeled as some sort of phobe or ism. The whole idea is attention seeking. 

I have never heard anyone calling for a teacher to lose their job because they are gay or trans. Must be like the trans in women's sports, rare.

I think you need to log off then because I highly doubt this ever has or ever will affect your life. Billions of people around the world ignore it every day.

[Scouts Honor]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Should colleges be allowed to teach a class on Christianity? What about free-market economics? Conservatism? Marxism? Mormonism? Anarchism? Authoritarianism? 

All those subjects have internal belief systems that advocate specific social views, just like feminism. 

The point of making students take those classes is that they teach them about the world they live in. 

Your daughter isn't going to be taught feminism as doctrine. She's going to be taught *about* feminism and what feminists believe. She'll be graded on her ability to describe those things (exam) and/or analyze/critique (essay). Actually believing those things is not a requirement.

if they want.

however, i would bet that the lean, attitude, spirit of a christianity class is much different than any of the others you listed

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Scouts Honor said:

thanks to all the critical thinking the public school system has them do?

they miss that time writing? 

You're example #1. Almost all of your posts, including this one, are poorly written, with ideas that don't cohere logically.

[Scouts Honor]

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

You can't even put coherent thoughts together. This doesn't address anything I said. Your operate on random word association based on your emotions. That's all you do.

seems pretty to the point to me.

my professors always told me to be less wordy and write what you want to say.

 

[Scouts Honor]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

You're example #1. Almost all of your posts, including this one, are poorly written, with ideas that don't cohere logically.

what part of it don't you understand?