Bo Nickal got wrecked

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, okokzach said:

As for the bad stoppage, that was on Lawler for letting his arm go limp while getting choked. You see guys all the time actively letting the ref know they're okay to continue. Everyone in that arena thought Lawler was out. And yes, Askren got caught and KO'd. Anyone can get caught.  But that's not the point. 

The point is Bo quit when he faced relatively mild adversity, while Askren battled back after getting it handed to him. Bo is more naturally gifted than Ben, but Ben was a legitimate fighter who didn't look for a way out. 

It was over a period of like 4 seconds. And I don't know what everyone in the arena knew. I knew I didn't think that looked like a real dangerous hold. It was a headlock with no arm. I also knew that I'd been disabused of that type of thinking the little MMA workout or training I had, so...whatever. If it's on Lawler or not, I didn't assign blame, I was just pointing out...he was not doing well in that fight and he didn't really win any exchanges... 

I consider that a win for him like I consider Zach Glazier the "Champ" of the 2023 Soldier Salute. 

[1032004]

20 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Well....that's like talking about how great a professional Baseball player was in AAA then. 

 

I mean...sure. But it's AAA. 

Askren was past his prime by the time he made the UFC.  I’m no MMA expert but I’d bet a lot of guys Askren beat in the other leagues were better than anyone Nickal had fought before Saturday.  And didn’t guy Bo lost to, come from the league Askren was in?

[okokzach]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

It was over a period of like 4 seconds. And I don't know what everyone in the arena knew. I knew I didn't think that looked like a real dangerous hold. It was a headlock with no arm. I also knew that I'd been disabused of that type of thinking the little MMA workout or training I had, so...whatever. If it's on Lawler or not, I didn't assign blame, I was just pointing out...he was not doing well in that fight and he didn't really win any exchanges... 

I consider that a win for him like I consider Zach Glazier the "Champ" of the 2023 Soldier Salute. 

We've seen imperfect holds take people out and perfect holds not. You have to look at the reaction of the guy defending. Lawler's arm went limp. But like I said, that's not the point. 

The point is how you handle adversity. Askren battled back and got the dominant position. Bo folded mentally well before he folded physically. 

[okokzach]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Askren was past his prime by the time he made the UFC.  I’m no MMA expert but I’d bet a lot of guys Askren beat in the other leagues were better than anyone Nickal had fought before Saturday.  And didn’t guy Bo lost to, come from the league Askren was in?

Correct. RDR actually got finished twice in a row before leaving ONE. 

[scourge165]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Askren was past his prime by the time he made the UFC.  I’m no MMA expert but I’d bet a lot of guys Askren beat in the other leagues were better than anyone Nickal had fought before Saturday.  And didn’t guy Bo lost to, come from the league Askren was in?

Ok. I'd probably take your bet. 

If we're talking about how old Ben was, he was 5-6 years older than two of the guys he fought and the same age as Masvidal. Dana White didn't want him in the UFC because he didn't think he was good. He didn't do a whole lot to disabuse Dana of that notion...IMO. 

 

But this isn't really about Askren, I was merely making a point that a certain type of athlete transitions more easily. If you won buy rolling guys through on single legs or...funk, that's probably not going to help you as much in MMA as if you just...dominated guys by overpowering them and using your athletic ability(also Burroughs or the others I mentioned). 

[scourge165]

7 minutes ago, okokzach said:

We've seen imperfect holds take people out and perfect holds not. You have to look at the reaction of the guy defending. Lawler's arm went limp. But like I said, that's not the point. 

The point is how you handle adversity. Askren battled back and got the dominant position. Bo folded mentally well before he folded physically. 

Why are YOU guys responding to me and making this a Bo vs Askren...matchup or debate?

I'm saying NEITHER of their styles was real conducive to winning in the UFC. I don't care how either did, but if someone uses Askren as an example...well, I think that's a LITTLE silly. 

 

How about Johnny Hendricks? He feels like a MUCH better example. Woodley or Koshchek, a LOT of other Wrestlers. It's not JUST limited to Bo and Ben. 

[1032004]

12 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Ok. I'd probably take your bet. 

If we're talking about how old Ben was, he was 5-6 years older than two of the guys he fought and the same age as Masvidal. Dana White didn't want him in the UFC because he didn't think he was good. He didn't do a whole lot to disabuse Dana of that notion...IMO. 

 

But this isn't really about Askren, I was merely making a point that a certain type of athlete transitions more easily. If you won buy rolling guys through on single legs or...funk, that's probably not going to help you as much in MMA as if you just...dominated guys by overpowering them and using your athletic ability(also Burroughs or the others I mentioned). 

This is the original post I responded to.  It just said MMA, and by using the word funk Askren in particular comes to mind.  How many guys that were succesful in wrestling due to “funk” have even seriously tried MMA?  Seems like a small sample size.

And even if you don’t want to give Askren credit for “beating” Lawler, you gotta give him credit for taking the beating that he did early on and continuing on in the fight. Based on what we saw this weekend I’m not sure Bo could have done the same.

10 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I feel like this is an area where a certain type of Wrestler does better. More of a brawler and...I really don't mean this as a dig on NIckal, but...he wasn't the most physical. David Taylor Id say the same thing about or most of those guys. 

Now Aaron Brooks...I feel like...aside from the fact that he'd never have the reach advantage, his style would work or Starocci maybe. Zain. I feel like he'd be a pretty scrapy fighter, but...I don't know how much all this funk really helps in MMA. 

 

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

And even if you don’t want to give Askren credit for “beating” Lawler, you gotta give him credit for taking the beating that he did early on and continuing on in the fight. Based on what we saw this weekend I’m not sure Bo could have done the same.

Sure...he gets credit for...taking that beating and not quitting. I still wouldn't call it a wildly successful run, but...sure. 

 

 

[WildTurk]

Bo is eating humble pie everyday for awhile.  He deserve's every bite!

[pokemonster]

12 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Why are YOU guys responding to me and making this a Bo vs Askren...matchup or debate?

I'm saying NEITHER of their styles was real conducive to winning in the UFC. I don't care how either did, but if someone uses Askren as an example...well, I think that's a LITTLE silly. 

 

How about Johnny Hendricks? He feels like a MUCH better example. Woodley or Koshchek, a LOT of other Wrestlers. It's not JUST limited to Bo and Ben. 

I'd argue if Bo spent less time trying to become a striker and more time becoming what Askren was in MMA, grappling and bullying people / hammer fisting tf out of everyone, he'd do better. You keep referring to Askren in the UFC when he was a shell of his former self and obviously out of shape. You keep dismissing his Lawler win.... Tell me how often your arms go limp while you're consciously and actively defending yourself. Quite the defensive move by a veteran like Lawler. This is why people are focusing on the Askren part of your comments. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

I'd argue if Bo spent less time trying to become a striker and more time becoming what Askren was in MMA, grappling and bullying people / hammer fisting tf out of everyone, he'd do better. You keep referring to Askren in the UFC when he was a shell of his former self and obviously out of shape. You keep dismissing his Lawler win.... Tell me how often your arms go limp while you're consciously and actively defending yourself. Quite the defensive move by a veteran like Lawler. This is why people are focusing on the Askren part of your comments. 

100%

And I think for some reason Bo was trying to become a brawler like Gathje and Chandler.  Clearly lacks the skill and the heart to do so.

[JimmyCinnabon]

On 5/4/2025 at 2:28 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Interesting to see Iowa wrestling fans openly celebrating a wrestler losing. Just because he went to Penn State. 

I went to Penn State just like Bo Nickal. I also am celebrating him losing. Bo Nickal is a turd. I hope the next guy wrecks him even worse. 

[billyhoyle]

17 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Why are YOU guys responding to me and making this a Bo vs Askren...matchup or debate?

I'm saying NEITHER of their styles was real conducive to winning in the UFC. I don't care how either did, but if someone uses Askren as an example...well, I think that's a LITTLE silly. 

 

How about Johnny Hendricks? He feels like a MUCH better example. Woodley or Koshchek, a LOT of other Wrestlers. It's not JUST limited to Bo and Ben. 

Askren was part of one of the most succesful UFC fights in history. Sure, his job was being on the receiving end of a knee for it, but given that UFC is essentially an extension of WWE at this point, it doesn't really matter whether he won or lost, as long as he got people to watch. and engage. 

[scourge165]

16 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Askren was part of one of the most succesful UFC fights in history. Sure, his job was being on the receiving end of a knee for it, but given that UFC is essentially an extension of WWE at this point, it doesn't really matter whether he won or lost, as long as he got people to watch. and engage. 

I suppose. That's like calling Connor's match with Khabib a hugely successful fight for him. 

I'm not really looking at this from a financial standpoint. I'm not looking at...LeBron and saying 'this is the best year of his career,' because it's the most he's ever been paid. That seems silly to me. 

[TNwrestling]

20 hours ago, scourge165 said:

It was over a period of like 4 seconds.

So then you admit it was a good stopage. If it was over then it was over, right? But for arguments sake, say he doesnt stop the fight, what then? Ben cranks on the choke and it ends in the next ten seconds? He was winning it whether it was stopped then or a few seconds later. 

 

Also, you can put blame on Dana White for actively refusing to sign Ben for many many many years. Then when he did he was well past his prime. Prime Ben in the ufc goes into the HoF. 

[pokemonster]

Is this accurate? 

 

[Hammerlock3]

Good news guys he's praying for all the haters....thats not the most transparent grift ever or anything. 

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, pokemonster said:

I'd argue if Bo spent less time trying to become a striker and more time becoming what Askren was in MMA, grappling and bullying people / hammer fisting tf out of everyone, he'd do better. You keep referring to Askren in the UFC when he was a shell of his former self and obviously out of shape. You keep dismissing his Lawler win.... Tell me how often your arms go limp while you're consciously and actively defending yourself. Quite the defensive move by a veteran like Lawler. This is why people are focusing on the Askren part of your comments. 

Dude...I didn't bring Askren up. I simply said there's a certain type of Wrestler who I think is more likely to have success in MMA and more of a physical, controlling Wrestler vs someone who thrived based on a funky style...and I didn't mention Askren. I mentioned guys I thought would be good and guys I didn't think would be great fits. 

As for Lawler, Herb Dean has said it was his worst call and he feels terrible. I see why he thought that. I'm simply saying for his 3 wins...it's not SUPER impressive that he basically got a headlock that did nothing to Lawler after getting beaten...badly. I don't care who technically won the fight, I'm talking about the actual performance. And that was the highlight in the UFC. 

AS for him being old and out of shape, no he wasn't. I'd put money down that Askren right NOW is in better shape than 95% of UFC fighters and could go a 5 round fight... at least a 3 round fight. He's got a preternatural gas tank. That wasn't the issue.

Shell of his former self? Sure. I don't really care, but if you want to say that, then the same would be said for Lawler who was I believe 38 to Askren's 35. 

[scourge165]

27 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

So then you admit it was a good stopage. If it was over then it was over, right? But for arguments sake, say he doesnt stop the fight, what then? Ben cranks on the choke and it ends in the next ten seconds? He was winning it whether it was stopped then or a few seconds later. 

 

Also, you can put blame on Dana White for actively refusing to sign Ben for many many many years. Then when he did he was well past his prime. Prime Ben in the ufc goes into the HoF. 

 

Not, I'm not "admitting" anything. I'm repeating what Herb Dean said. Even the person who brought up that as his top achievement put "Beat Lawler" in quotes. 

 

For arguments sake what happens if it's not stopped? I don't know dude, they keep fighting. I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I'm simply saying if you're looking at Askren's career, pointing to the win over Lawler, a win in which the Ref apologized, it's not the strongest argument. I don't have a personal opinion on when or if  you stop that. Herb Dean said he didn't see the thumbs up, Lawler said he yelled he was good. It's all TOTALLY moot. 

 

Again, to recap, I mentioned the TYPES of Wrestlers I thought would be good fits in MMA and those who wouldn't, someone ELSE brought up Askren. I didn't agree. That's it. I'm DEFINITELY not interested in arguing about what would have hypothetically happened AFTER the Lawler fight, I'm not "admitting" anything as I'm not accused of anything(so far as I'm aware). 

I think Johnny Hendricks style made for a better fighter than Ben Askren. 

I think a guy like Parker Keckeisen would make for a better fighter than Bo Nickal. 

If you disagree...so be it, but this wasn't about Ben Askren and again, I didn't make it about him. I specifically mentioned David Taylor...and Askren is the guy people get worked up about?

 

How about this...I don't think Cael would have been particularly great in MMA either. I DO think the Brands brothers would have. Now...I'm out. PSU and Iowa fans argue among yourselves. 

[scourge165]

57 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

Is this accurate? 

 

I am at a loss. I need to re-examine my entire belief system, everything I've done in my life and plan on doing in my life...

I just watched that and thought..."that's a good take...by Brandon Schaub," the man who gave us the ICONIC Gringo Papi?!? 
 

Rogan must have said this a day or two earlier... that's the only plausible explanation. 

[billyhoyle]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I suppose. That's like calling Connor's match with Khabib a hugely successful fight for him. 

I'm not really looking at this from a financial standpoint. I'm not looking at...LeBron and saying 'this is the best year of his career,' because it's the most he's ever been paid. That seems silly to me. 

Basketball is much more legitimate of a sport than MMA/UFC, but I completely agree on the Connor/Khabib example. Or the Conor fight with Mayweather (one of the greatest successes in his career).  Aksren was mediocre at the actual sport of MMA, but he had great success promoting himself. The moment of him getting knocked out by that knee will always be part of the history of the sport.  It's the UFC equivalent of the Nike jumpman or Jerry west logo. That is something that most heels can only dream of. 

Edited 8 hours ago by billyhoyle

[happyvalet]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Dude...I didn't bring Askren up. I simply said there's a certain type of Wrestler who I think is more likely to have success in MMA and more of a physical, controlling Wrestler vs someone who thrived based on a funky style...and I didn't mention Askren. I mentioned guys I thought would be good and guys I didn't think would be great fits. 

As for Lawler, Herb Dean has said it was his worst call and he feels terrible. I see why he thought that. I'm simply saying for his 3 wins...it's not SUPER impressive that he basically got a headlock that did nothing to Lawler after getting beaten...badly. I don't care who technically won the fight, I'm talking about the actual performance. And that was the highlight in the UFC. 

AS for him being old and out of shape, no he wasn't. I'd put money down that Askren right NOW is in better shape than 95% of UFC fighters and could go a 5 round fight... at least a 3 round fight. He's got a preternatural gas tank. That wasn't the issue.

Shell of his former self? Sure. I don't really care, but if you want to say that, then the same would be said for Lawler who was I believe 38 to Askren's 35. 

"I'm not the one who brought up Askren, I'm just the guy who keeps arguing about him. Don't come at me, I'm helpless in this situation!" 

[1032004]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

 

AS for him being old and out of shape, no he wasn't. I'd put money down that Askren right NOW is in better shape than 95% of UFC fighters and could go a 5 round fight... at least a 3 round fight. He's got a preternatural gas tank. That wasn't the issue.

 

Hasn’t he admitted to being on roids or something now?

[scourge165]

20 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Hasn’t he admitted to being on roids or something now?

I have no clue, maybe he's on what a lot of people go on around 50. Some type of HRT or whatever. A PED, but otherwise legal.

My point was the guy has ALWAYS had an incredible gas tank and that...I would bet money his conditioning, his cardio is still likely elite. 

I don't think when he was in the UFC, he was ever out of shape or gassing. Dana White called him a "bag of milk." So he's never been the biggest or most muscular and that was true when he was the most dominant Wrestler in College for two seasons and bumping up and Wrestling All Americans at 184, but he was NEVER the guy gassing...IMO. 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

Basketball is much more legitimate of a sport than MMA/UFC, but I completely agree on the Connor/Khabib example. Or the Conor fight with Mayweather (one of the greatest successes in his career).  Aksren was mediocre at the actual sport of MMA, but he had great success promoting himself. The moment of him getting knocked out by that knee will always be part of the history of the sport.  It's the UFC equivalent of the Nike jumpman or Jerry west logo. That is something that most heels can only dream of. 

Fair enough! If that's the metric we're using, then Askren was successful. Though...he was also a great boxer by this metric. 

1 hour ago, happyvalet said:

"I'm not the one who brought up Askren, I'm just the guy who keeps arguing about him. Don't come at me, I'm helpless in this situation!" 

 

The quotes are appropriate there as that is DEFINITELY what I said!