Bo Nickal got wrecked

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, okokzach said:

As for the bad stoppage, that was on Lawler for letting his arm go limp while getting choked. You see guys all the time actively letting the ref know they're okay to continue. Everyone in that arena thought Lawler was out. And yes, Askren got caught and KO'd. Anyone can get caught.  But that's not the point. 

The point is Bo quit when he faced relatively mild adversity, while Askren battled back after getting it handed to him. Bo is more naturally gifted than Ben, but Ben was a legitimate fighter who didn't look for a way out. 

It was over a period of like 4 seconds. And I don't know what everyone in the arena knew. I knew I didn't think that looked like a real dangerous hold. It was a headlock with no arm. I also knew that I'd been disabused of that type of thinking the little MMA workout or training I had, so...whatever. If it's on Lawler or not, I didn't assign blame, I was just pointing out...he was not doing well in that fight and he didn't really win any exchanges... 

I consider that a win for him like I consider Zach Glazier the "Champ" of the 2023 Soldier Salute. 

[1032004]

20 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Well....that's like talking about how great a professional Baseball player was in AAA then. 

 

I mean...sure. But it's AAA. 

Askren was past his prime by the time he made the UFC.  I’m no MMA expert but I’d bet a lot of guys Askren beat in the other leagues were better than anyone Nickal had fought before Saturday.  And didn’t guy Bo lost to, come from the league Askren was in?

[okokzach]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

It was over a period of like 4 seconds. And I don't know what everyone in the arena knew. I knew I didn't think that looked like a real dangerous hold. It was a headlock with no arm. I also knew that I'd been disabused of that type of thinking the little MMA workout or training I had, so...whatever. If it's on Lawler or not, I didn't assign blame, I was just pointing out...he was not doing well in that fight and he didn't really win any exchanges... 

I consider that a win for him like I consider Zach Glazier the "Champ" of the 2023 Soldier Salute. 

We've seen imperfect holds take people out and perfect holds not. You have to look at the reaction of the guy defending. Lawler's arm went limp. But like I said, that's not the point. 

The point is how you handle adversity. Askren battled back and got the dominant position. Bo folded mentally well before he folded physically. 

[okokzach]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Askren was past his prime by the time he made the UFC.  I’m no MMA expert but I’d bet a lot of guys Askren beat in the other leagues were better than anyone Nickal had fought before Saturday.  And didn’t guy Bo lost to, come from the league Askren was in?

Correct. RDR actually got finished twice in a row before leaving ONE. 

[scourge165]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Askren was past his prime by the time he made the UFC.  I’m no MMA expert but I’d bet a lot of guys Askren beat in the other leagues were better than anyone Nickal had fought before Saturday.  And didn’t guy Bo lost to, come from the league Askren was in?

Ok. I'd probably take your bet. 

If we're talking about how old Ben was, he was 5-6 years older than two of the guys he fought and the same age as Masvidal. Dana White didn't want him in the UFC because he didn't think he was good. He didn't do a whole lot to disabuse Dana of that notion...IMO. 

 

But this isn't really about Askren, I was merely making a point that a certain type of athlete transitions more easily. If you won buy rolling guys through on single legs or...funk, that's probably not going to help you as much in MMA as if you just...dominated guys by overpowering them and using your athletic ability(also Burroughs or the others I mentioned). 

[scourge165]

7 minutes ago, okokzach said:

We've seen imperfect holds take people out and perfect holds not. You have to look at the reaction of the guy defending. Lawler's arm went limp. But like I said, that's not the point. 

The point is how you handle adversity. Askren battled back and got the dominant position. Bo folded mentally well before he folded physically. 

Why are YOU guys responding to me and making this a Bo vs Askren...matchup or debate?

I'm saying NEITHER of their styles was real conducive to winning in the UFC. I don't care how either did, but if someone uses Askren as an example...well, I think that's a LITTLE silly. 

 

How about Johnny Hendricks? He feels like a MUCH better example. Woodley or Koshchek, a LOT of other Wrestlers. It's not JUST limited to Bo and Ben. 

[1032004]

12 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Ok. I'd probably take your bet. 

If we're talking about how old Ben was, he was 5-6 years older than two of the guys he fought and the same age as Masvidal. Dana White didn't want him in the UFC because he didn't think he was good. He didn't do a whole lot to disabuse Dana of that notion...IMO. 

 

But this isn't really about Askren, I was merely making a point that a certain type of athlete transitions more easily. If you won buy rolling guys through on single legs or...funk, that's probably not going to help you as much in MMA as if you just...dominated guys by overpowering them and using your athletic ability(also Burroughs or the others I mentioned). 

This is the original post I responded to.  It just said MMA, and by using the word funk Askren in particular comes to mind.  How many guys that were succesful in wrestling due to “funk” have even seriously tried MMA?  Seems like a small sample size.

And even if you don’t want to give Askren credit for “beating” Lawler, you gotta give him credit for taking the beating that he did early on and continuing on in the fight. Based on what we saw this weekend I’m not sure Bo could have done the same.

10 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I feel like this is an area where a certain type of Wrestler does better. More of a brawler and...I really don't mean this as a dig on NIckal, but...he wasn't the most physical. David Taylor Id say the same thing about or most of those guys. 

Now Aaron Brooks...I feel like...aside from the fact that he'd never have the reach advantage, his style would work or Starocci maybe. Zain. I feel like he'd be a pretty scrapy fighter, but...I don't know how much all this funk really helps in MMA. 

 

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

And even if you don’t want to give Askren credit for “beating” Lawler, you gotta give him credit for taking the beating that he did early on and continuing on in the fight. Based on what we saw this weekend I’m not sure Bo could have done the same.

Sure...he gets credit for...taking that beating and not quitting. I still wouldn't call it a wildly successful run, but...sure.