someone who understands the WTT process this year, please explain

[WrestlingRash]

the people who made the open, WTTs and final X have done nothing but make the whole process confusing as heck. can someone smarter than me explain it? 

[SocraTease]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

the people who made the open, WTTs and final X have done nothing but make the whole process confusing as heck. can someone smarter than me explain it? 

The US Open winner gets to advance to Final X at the same weight category in which they won.

• If a weight has a returning World/Olympic medal winner, Final X is then set. If there is no returning medalist at the same weight, the 2nd Final X participant will be determined at World Team Trials.
• If a returning medalist is changing weights, they are not eligible to accept a Final X bid, they must go through the US Open or World Team Trials Challenge Tournament.
• Champions from the US Open are not eligible to compete in the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament.

[SocraTease]

6 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

the people who made the open, WTTs and final X have done nothing but make the whole process confusing as heck. can someone smarter than me explain it? 

If you want more detailed information, here is the place to look:

https://www.themat.com/team-usa/team-selection-criteria

[SocraTease]

World Team Trials Challenge Tournament – May 16-18, 2025 @ Louisville, KY

The event only applies in weight categories where a 2024 Senior Men’s Freestyle Olympic Medalist or 2024 Senior Men’s Freestyle World Medalist did not accept their automatic berth to Final X or where there is no 2024 Senior Men’s Freestyle Olympic Medalist or 2024 Senior Men’s Freestyle World Medalist.

The World Team Trials Challenge Tournament is a one match final.

Wrestlers who meet the following criteria will qualify for the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament:

a) 2023 Senior Men’s Freestyle World Team Member  b) 2024 Senior Men’s Freestyle National Team Member  c) 2024 U23 Men’s Freestyle World Medalist d) 2024 U20 Men’s Freestyle World Medalist e) 2024 U17 Men’s Freestyle World Champion (age eligible) f) November 2024 Armed Forces Men’s Freestyle World Medalist g) November 2024 Bill Farrell International highest placing (top 4) U.S. athlete, who has yet to qualify, will earn a spot in the 2025 World Team Trials Challenge Tournament h) February 2025 UWW Medalists at Ranking Series events #1 & #2  i) March 2025 NCAA I top 3 place finisher j) April 2025 Senior Men’s Freestyle U.S. Open Championships - top 7 place finisher per weight class    k) May 2025 Senior Pan American Championships Medalist

The winner of the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament will advance to the Final X. 

[BAC]

I like the new system.

The US Open had really lost its luster for a number of years.  If the best you could get from it was a bye to the finals of the WTTs, where you *still* had to win to make Final X, it really wasn't much of an incentive.  Too easy to just wait for WTTs so the best guys skipped it.  The only guys who went were the ones who needed to get their top-8 placement to qualify for WTTs.  The result was that the premier senior-level freestyle event was more of an afterthought, and just one of multiple ways to qualify for WTTs.

The quality of WTTs does take a hit since it'll eliminate some weight classes (two this year), but I don't think it hurts the event all that much.  And it may make the remaining WTT weight classes that much more competitive, as some guys will shift weights to try to make the world team at a weight where there's still an opening.  So this year, expect some of the 61kg guys to be at 65kgs at WTTs.

Overall its a change for the better.

[lisa morales]

Winners get to travel to Outer Mongolia and eat horsemeat.  

[ionel]

4 hours ago, SocraTease said:

The US Open winner gets to advance to Final X at the same weight category in which they won.

• If a weight has a returning World/Olympic medal winner, Final X is then set. If there is no returning medalist at the same weight, the 2nd Final X participant will be determined at World Team Trials.
• If a returning medalist is changing weights, they are not eligible to accept a Final X bid, they must go through the US Open or World Team Trials Challenge Tournament.
• Champions from the US Open are not eligible to compete in the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament.

That was clear as mud.  

[bnwtwg]

20 minutes ago, ionel said:

That was clear as mud.  

The criteria has been the same since 2015. The only difference is that the final best-of-three wrestle-off between the returning medalist/US Open champ if no returning medalist moved from the end of world team trials to Final X. Consistency lends to clarity.

 

Now the greco procedures this year on the other hand WERE clear as mud - the US Open was World Team Trials. Very weird.

[de4856]

So the Greco team is set, and I know it’s early but my thought is that this is a good thing. I believe that these guys can now focus on improving and building towards becoming their best for the Worlds. 

[okokzach]

8 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

the people who made the open, WTTs and final X have done nothing but make the whole process confusing as heck. can someone smarter than me explain it? 

Let's work backwards:

• A team of 10 wrestlers to represent the US will be decided at Final X (the X is for 10). 
  • At Final X, the two best wrestlers at each weight will compete in a best 2 out of 3 matches format.
• There are three different ways to earn a spot at Final X at each weight:
  • (1) Winning a 2024 World/Olympic medal
  • (2) Winning the 2025 US Open 
  • (3) Winning the 2025 World Team Trials (WTT)
    • WTT can be thought of as an "if needed" event.
• If there is a wrestler who qualifies through method (1), then method (3) does not apply for that weight.
  • e.g. Spencer Lee won the silver medal at the 2024 Olympics at 57kg and so he automatically qualifies to compete at Final X for the 57kg spot on this year's team. 
  • Thus, there will be no Final X competitor from the WTT at 57kg.
  • The same is true for 61kg because Vito Arujau won bronze at the 2024 World Championships.
• All weights will have a Final X competitor from the US Open.

So, we have two Final X spots locked in from 2024 medalists (57kg and 61kg). This weekend we had ten more spots determined from the US Open. The final eight spots will be determined at WTT. 

By weight:

• 57kg: Spencer Lee vs, Luke Lilledahl
• 61kg: Vito Arujau vs. Jax Forrest
• 65kg: Joey McKenna vs. WTT winner
• 70kg: Yianni Diakomihalis vs. WTT winner
• 74kg: Mitchell Mesenbrink vs. WTT winner
• 79kg: Evan Wick vs. WTT winner
• 86kg: Zahid Valencia vs. WTT winner
• 92kg: Trent Hidlay vs. WTT winner
• 97kg: Kyle Snyder vs. WTT winner
• 125kg: Wyatt Hendrickson vs. WTT winner

Edited 13 hours ago by okokzach

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, de4856 said:

So the Greco team is set, and I know it’s early but my thought is that this is a good thing. I believe that these guys can now focus on improving and building towards becoming their best for the Worlds. 

US greco is atrocious* Better off to send NCAA high flyers such as Lovett and Andonian and Ramos who can let the fur fly since domestic isn't patient and technical enough to win high-level matches, much less medal. I will ask what do we have to lose at this point? We are already rock bottom and can't qualify most weights so why not?

Edited 11 hours ago by bnwtwg
*i sucked at freco. i could never imagine competing at the highest level of our sport.

[alex1fly]

10 hours ago, okokzach said:

Let's work backwards:

• A team of 10 wrestlers to represent the US will be decided at Final X (the X is for 10). 
  • At Final X, the two best wrestlers at each weight will compete in a best 2 out of 3 matches format.
• There are three different ways to earn a spot at Final X at each weight:
  • (1) Winning a 2024 World/Olympic medal
  • (2) Winning the 2025 US Open 
  • (3) Winning the 2025 World Team Trials (WTT)
    • WTT can be thought of as an "if needed" event.
• If there is a wrestler who qualifies through method (1), then method (3) does not apply for that weight.
  • e.g. Spencer Lee won the silver medal at the 2024 Olympics at 57kg and so he automatically qualifies to compete at Final X for the 57kg spot on this year's team. 
  • Thus, there will be no Final X competitor from the WTT at 57kg.
  • The same is true for 61kg because Vito Arujau won bronze at the 2024 World Championships.
• All weights will have a Final X competitor from the US Open.

So, we have two Final X spots locked in from 2024 medalists (57kg and 61kg). This weekend we had ten more spots determined from the US Open. The final eight spots will be determined at WTT. 

By weight:

• 57kg: Spencer Lee vs, Luke Lilledahl
• 61kg: Vito Arujau vs. Jax Forrest
• 65kg: Joey McKenna vs. WTT winner
• 70kg: Yianni Diakomihalis vs. WTT winner
• 74kg: Mitchell Mesenbrink vs. WTT winner
• 79kg: Evan Wick vs. WTT winner
• 86kg: Zahid Valencia vs. WTT winner
• 92kg: Trent Hidlay vs. WTT winner
• 97kg: Kyle Snyder vs. WTT winner
• 125kg: Wyatt Hendrickson vs. WTT winner

Yeah. This is helpful.

What matters is Final X. A couple different ways to get there - US Open, WTT, previous medals.

Thank you.

[MPhillips]

14 hours ago, ionel said:

That was clear as mud.  

You're a bit thick today brother...

[ionel]

1 minute ago, MPhillips said:

You're a bit thick today brother...

ahh ... that was yesterday ...

[WrestlingRash]

12 hours ago, okokzach said:

Let's work backwards:

• A team of 10 wrestlers to represent the US will be decided at Final X (the X is for 10). 
  • At Final X, the two best wrestlers at each weight will compete in a best 2 out of 3 matches format.
• There are three different ways to earn a spot at Final X at each weight:
  • (1) Winning a 2024 World/Olympic medal
  • (2) Winning the 2025 US Open 
  • (3) Winning the 2025 World Team Trials (WTT)
    • WTT can be thought of as an "if needed" event.
• If there is a wrestler who qualifies through method (1), then method (3) does not apply for that weight.
  • e.g. Spencer Lee won the silver medal at the 2024 Olympics at 57kg and so he automatically qualifies to compete at Final X for the 57kg spot on this year's team. 
  • Thus, there will be no Final X competitor from the WTT at 57kg.
  • The same is true for 61kg because Vito Arujau won bronze at the 2024 World Championships.
• All weights will have a Final X competitor from the US Open.

So, we have two Final X spots locked in from 2024 medalists (57kg and 61kg). This weekend we had ten more spots determined from the US Open. The final eight spots will be determined at WTT. 

By weight:

• 57kg: Spencer Lee vs, Luke Lilledahl
• 61kg: Vito Arujau vs. Jax Forrest
• 65kg: Joey McKenna vs. WTT winner
• 70kg: Yianni Diakomihalis vs. WTT winner
• 74kg: Mitchell Mesenbrink vs. WTT winner
• 79kg: Evan Wick vs. WTT winner
• 86kg: Zahid Valencia vs. WTT winner
• 92kg: Trent Hidlay vs. WTT winner
• 97kg: Kyle Snyder vs. WTT winner
• 125kg: Wyatt Hendrickson vs. WTT winner

Thank you!! I finally get it now.