Rumor has it Bo is giving back his hodge

[RockLobster]

22 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I will say I'm more impressed if a 149 leads the Country in pins...and then actually places(or starts) 

This year the pin leader was the guy battling for the spot from Lehigh(he ultimately lost the starting spot). 

Quality of opponent seems relevant for pins and techs. 

Mesenbrink won it for techs.

You post kinda leans into Parris winning the award. He won it with 11 pins. MOST of them appeared to be under .500 and working backward, I found that of the last 6 that he pinned, one of them was an AA. 

I'd say Mesenbrink teching the runner up or most Wretlers he faced was pretty impressive.

So particularly as it comes to HWTs, I find pins less impressive or dominant than techs. 

 

My only issue with the Hodge has been the...ever evolving criteria. Why change it from pins to dominance? Why did they consider past accomplishments and then eliminate them?

The most pins ALWAYS come in the HWT class(197 is 2nd). Incidentally, those two weights have won the Hodge more than any other weights. So I guess those have been deemed the best weight classes?

If they wanted it to be a pinning award, they shouldn't have taken pinning out of the criteria. 

 

But back to my original thoughts on the award as a whole, I said I voted for Wyatt AND Starroci...so I'm certainly not complaining about Wyatt winning the award.

I'd have also voted for Keck had he beaten Starocci.

I find myself agreeing with you again. The Hodge "reasoning" seems to be ever elusive.

I much prefer the emphasis on pinning. But that's just me.

As I posted earlier - I do believe that a wrestler who is a proven 'pinner' is just a different kind of cat.

I believe there is something significantly different about a wrestler who is willing to risk losing a match in order to get a pin - even if they are ahead, vs one who won't risk that same loss.

It's almost as if they are wrestling two slightly different versions of the same sport.

[BruceyB]

55 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

No, that's just how YOU'RE interpreting it in a clumsy analogy from another sport.

What is the difference between a pin and a knockout punch? In either scenario, you could be getting dominated, but in one exchange you change the tide and are declared the definitive winner. I'm agreeing with you that there are fluke pins and likewise fluke knockouts in boxing.. however.. the best of the best don't lose due to a fluke exchange. Again I understand your argument, but you are ignoring the fact that a pin is the most rewarded result in wrestling. Ask two-time Hodge winner Ben Askren which is a bigger sign of dominance.. in his junior and senior year of college.. being tech'd rather than pinned would have been a credit to the loser because he couldn't do what he was trying to do. Ben would have been upset to tech someone rather than pin them.. he must not understand what it means to dominate.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, RockLobster said:

I find myself agreeing with you again. The Hodge "reasoning" seems to be ever elusive.

I much prefer the emphasis on pinning. But that's just me.

As I posted earlier - I do believe that a wrestler who is a proven 'pinner' is just a different kind of cat.

I believe there is something significantly different about a wrestler who is willing to risk losing a match in order to get a pin - even if they are ahead, vs one who won't risk that same loss.

It's almost as if they are wrestling two slightly different versions of the same sport.

I'm not quite seeing the risk. 

I had a coach who would tell you he DIDN'T want you to go out there and get a pin until you got...5-6 takedowns, 3-4 DIFFERENT takedowns. He was a couple times National Champ and had a pretty good idea, so I think...and someone started a thread about what attribute you wish you had. Askrens funk or maybe it was Jaggers Cradle, whatever it was, for me, it was Cael's fearlessness when it came to taking a shot and just not putting pressure on himself to Wrestle. Just constantly looking to attack.

I don't see risk in putting a kid in a bar and just running it, or a half and working that for a full period. Especially at...again, HWT. 

You're not watching a lot of HWTs sitting in a crab position and rolling across their back for a pin.

[scourge165]

54 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

What is the difference between a pin and a knockout punch?

It's a different sport. 

 

56 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Ask two-time Hodge winner Ben Askren which is a bigger sign of dominance

No.

I'll ask Kyle Dake. He shared who he thought should win it. 

Or Winn Magazine Editor who said that nobody had Hendrickson a one of the favorites coming into the tournament. 

57 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Ben would have been upset to tech someone rather than pin them.. he must not understand what it means to dominate.

I guess Gable Stevenson is ignorant of this distinction as well...and David Taylor

[JimmyCinnabon]

Even as a die hard PSU fan I find Bo Nickal to be an insufferable and intellectually bankrupt turd. Go ahead Bo, give back your Hodge trophy. Nobody cares.

 

[Caveira]

3 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I guess Gable Stevenson is ignorant of this distinction as well...and David Taylor

That’s not possible is it.   Both of them were voted to be the most dominant wrestler of their respective years.   One twice.   The guy in the title of this thread says he’s giving it back.  And the guy we discuss the most (starocci) doesn’t even have one.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

That’s not possible is it.   Both of them were voted to be the most dominant wrestler of their respective years.   One twice.   The guy in the title of this thread says he’s giving it back.  And the guy we discuss the most (starocci) doesn’t even have one.  

Now he's gone back on the "giving it back" and says he might give his to Carter.  

[Gene Mills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Now he's gone back on the "giving it back" and says he might give his to Carter.  

He should melt it down and cast 2 pint size Hodges!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

He should melt it down and cast 2 pint size Hodges!

That would be good.

Why does he make these absurd statements, when he would never have given it back and he isn't giving it to Carter?  Carter likely would have refused it, I would hope.

Just foolishness.

[Dogbone]

9 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

That would be good.

Why does he make these absurd statements, when he would never have given it back and he isn't giving it to Carter?  Carter likely would have refused it, I would hope.

Just foolishness.

It isn't the first or last thing that either of these guys have said online that they won't back it up.  They are mastering the art of MMA style hype to create an audience.  It works in short form when you are trying to sell fights, will see if it works in long form podcast where it could hurt your credibility.    

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

It isn't the first or last thing that either of these guys have said online that they won't back it up.  They are mastering the art of MMA style hype to create an audience.  It works in short form when you are trying to sell fights, will see if it works in long form podcast where it could hurt your credibility.    

His fights sure aren't selling themselves based on the action...

Also demoted to a Fight Night...

[strange_daze]

8 hours ago, BruceyB said:

What is the difference between a pin and a knockout punch? In either scenario, you could be getting dominated, but in one exchange you change the tide and are declared the definitive winner. I'm agreeing with you that there are fluke pins and likewise fluke knockouts in boxing.. however.. the best of the best don't lose due to a fluke exchange. Again I understand your argument, but you are ignoring the fact that a pin is the most rewarded result in wrestling. Ask two-time Hodge winner Ben Askren which is a bigger sign of dominance.. in his junior and senior year of college.. being tech'd rather than pinned would have been a credit to the loser because he couldn't do what he was trying to do. Ben would have been upset to tech someone rather than pin them.. he must not understand what it means to dominate.

I think you're onto a useful connection here. I'd just tweak it a bit: a pin is analagous to a KO, and a tech fall is analagous to a TKO. With the latter, you technically knock your opponent down more times, but with the former, you knock them down for good. It's decisive. I wonder if people in the boxing community argue that a TKO is the more dominant finish than the KO. (Real question.)