Poll: GOAT NCAA heavyweight

[peanut]

??

Edited Monday at 03:42 PM by peanut

[Alces Alces Gigas]

Jimmy Jackson should be on the list 

[lisa morales]

Jim Nance

[lu_alum]

21 minutes ago, lisa morales said:

Jim Nance

+1

[peanut]

5 hours ago, lisa morales said:

Jim Nance

Interesting. I don’t know much about him. What’s your reasoning?

[peanut]

No love for Neal, who, immediately after his senior year, won a world title and was named World’s Most Technical Wrestler by FILA?

[Coastal]

It would be interesting to see what heavyweight would look like if it was still unlimited.  Not Tab Thacker heavy but NFL lineman 340-350 and in shape.

 

 

[boconnell]

35 minutes ago, peanut said:

No love for Neal, who, immediately after his senior year, won a world title and was named World’s Most Technical Wrestler by FILA?

That's probably because there are two guys who won world golds before their senior year and also had more credentials across the board.

[bnwtwg]

Snyder has to win by default because he beat Coon who was already a world silver medalist when they met the final time. The logic is that this is strictly NCAA, not what someone became after such as Gwiz or Parris and their respective bronzes post-collegiately. It's a very thin argument though because really Snyder and Steveson are co-goat... a COAT if you will.

[boconnell]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

Snyder has to win by default because he beat Coon who was already a world silver medalist when they met the final time. The logic is that this is strictly NCAA, not what someone became after such as Gwiz or Parris and their respective bronzes post-collegiately. It's a very thin argument though because really Snyder and Steveson are co-goat... a COAT if you will.

Why would beating a silver medalist be better than being the gold medalist.  

[bnwtwg]

4 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Why would beating a silver medalist be better than being the gold medalist.  

What gold medalist did Steveson beat at NCAAs?

If you are referring to reigning world champion then Snyder did that AND defended his title while in college while Steveson did not make a team until his olympic debut. So again, logical advantage = Snyder but like I said it's picking nits. They share the title.

[boconnell]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

What gold medalist did Steveson beat at NCAAs?

If you are referring to reigning world champion then Snyder did that AND defended his title while in college while Steveson did not make a team until his olympic debut. So again, logical advantage = Snyder but like I said it's picking nits. They share the title.

I said 'being' not 'beating'.

Steveson was the gold Medalist.

Snyder beat a silver medalist.  

That's not advantage Snyder.  Snyder's own gold medal is far more impressive than him beating a silver medalist.  But winning gold doesn't put him ahead of another guy winning gold.  Especially in an argument about heavyweight where Snyder's golds and wins over medalists come 70 lbs down.  

[lu_alum]

1 hour ago, peanut said:

Interesting. I don’t know much about him. What’s your reasoning?

Jim Nance only lost one bout in HS or College - and that loss was controversial in nature.  He beat a future five-time World medalist to win his first NCAA title.  It is a significant oversight not to include him in the poll.

It has been suggested that PA created the heavyweight class because to accommodate Nance.

https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/8074

https://www.eiwawrestling.org/HOF/Hall_of_Fame/nance-jim?view=bio

[mspart]

Howard Harris of Oregon St.   He had the GOAT NCAA tourney pinning his way in all matches, including pinning Big Bruce.   He won the Gorarrian award for that tourney.   Monster.

mspart

[lisa morales]

Jim "Bo" Nance was also a great running back for Syracuse and the Patriots.

[peanut]

46 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

Jim Nance only lost one bout in HS or College - and that loss was controversial in nature.  He beat a future five-time World medalist to win his first NCAA title.  It is a significant oversight not to include him in the poll.

It has been suggested that PA created the heavyweight class because to accommodate Nance.

https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/8074

https://www.eiwawrestling.org/HOF/Hall_of_Fame/nance-jim?view=bio

I included McCready and Hutton, who won three titles in the three-year era. 

I knew that Nance won two NCAA titles in the three-year era, and had no international hardware. I did not know that Nance was held in such high regard. Good to know. 

Edited Monday at 11:46 PM by peanut

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

I said 'being' not 'beating'.

Steveson was the gold Medalist.

Snyder beat a silver medalist.  

That's not advantage Snyder.  Snyder's own gold medal is far more impressive than him beating a silver medalist.  But winning gold doesn't put him ahead of another guy winning gold.  Especially in an argument about heavyweight where Snyder's golds and wins over medalists come 70 lbs down.  

You are being intentionally obtuse.

Snyder won his first worlds in college by beating the defending gold medalist. Then he won the Olympics. Then he won worlds again. Then he beat world silver Coon for the 2018 NCAA tourney. Threw golds in college including a college win over a returning world medalist.

Steveson won an Olympic title his third year of college by defeating 2019 world champ Geno. He did not beat any world medalists during the NCAA season, unlike Snyder.

[Wrestleknownothing]

30 minutes ago, peanut said:

I included McCready and Hutton, who won three titles in the three-year era. 

I knew that Nance won two NCAA titles in the three-year era, and had no international hardware. I did not know that Nance was held in such high regard. Good to know. 

Hutton won 3 of 4 in the brief post-war 4 year era. Back then if it was tied the ref would decide. He won one that way and lost one that way. Both were 1-1.

[Alces Alces Gigas]

Nance lost in the semis to Bob Billberg of Moorhead State (MN) who was the NAIA champ that year (66) MSU  was dual affiliated back then so they wrestled in two national tournaments 

Edited yesterday at 02:01 AM by Alces Alces Gigas

[Eagle26]

2 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

You are being intentionally obtuse.

Snyder won his first worlds in college by beating the defending gold medalist. Then he won the Olympics. Then he won worlds again. Then he beat world silver Coon for the 2018 NCAA tourney. Threw golds in college including a college win over a returning world medalist.

Steveson won an Olympic title his third year of college by defeating 2019 world champ Geno. He did not beat any world medalists during the NCAA season, unlike Snyder.

You have to factor in that Snyder’s world and Olympic medals were not at heavyweight. Taking nothing away from his career … he’s definitely the GOAT “light heavyweight”, but no way is he the GOAT at heavyweight. He lost to Coon his senior year. Gable hasn’t been close to losing a match. Do you really think senior year Snyder would stand a chance against Gable?

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

You are being intentionally obtuse.

Snyder won his first worlds in college by beating the defending gold medalist. Then he won the Olympics. Then he won worlds again. Then he beat world silver Coon for the 2018 NCAA tourney. Threw golds in college including a college win over a returning world medalist.

Steveson won an Olympic title his third year of college by defeating 2019 world champ Geno. He did not beat any world medalists during the NCAA season, unlike Snyder.

Why would it matter who they were beating in season and who they were beating before the season at the olympic tournament?  

Why would beating Adam Coon matter in deciding who was better between two guys who were actual Olympic champs?  They have credentials that far surpass Adam Coon, so declaring that the victory over coon is what separates them is silly.