With all of this talk about to gap from 197-285

[Caveira]

41 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

 

Do you really think it is fair a really good 220-230 gives up 50 pounds to a good 280 pounder? Just answer that one simple question.  Or they should all be happy with bulking up and taking 4 or 5th for 4 years? Who cares about AD's. What about the student athlete. Also because 2 220 pounders is a better product than  a 220 285 match. You’re telling me there's not enough wrestlers who fit this body type?? And if the weights are split maybe there's half 220 wrestlers and half 230-285 wrestlers that's more guys wrestling equal opponents isn't that why we have weight classes. Programs are getting 3 deep at 197 look at all the new guys, If they put on a growth spurt then all they have is freestyle. Which brings us to another reason building for the 96kg spot.  If your looking to freestyle 96kg you sit out college or give up 50 pounds.  

 I didn’t define it would be good or bad … I.e. matchups.    I said it would end up being a wash.   With that said.  Unfortunately ADs matter.  If let’s say I had to increase the budget by ~10% more per school including travel etc…. Would that help or hurt some of the not Michigan Iowa psu osu nebby and okla st?    Fringe programs would fold I fear.   

Edited Saturday at 11:44 PM by Caveira

[1032004]

3 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

 

Do you really think it is fair a really good 220-230 gives up 50 pounds to a good 280 pounder? 

Yeah, kinda, because most of the guys that weigh 275+ are slow and not that technical.  Nash Hutmacher, B1G football player cutting from over 300 lbs almost lost to a backup 197 last year.

[bnwtwg]

If light heavy is where it's at then why did Tony Cassioppi go 97kg for the trials? Here are some key bullet points to factor in:

1) per this thread, a heavyweight between 235-245 is optimal.

2) Gable Steveson was not going to be at OTT.

3) 97kg is ruled by an all-timer.

4) at his NCAA largest, Cassioppi was regularly weighing over 260 so the long-term cut was 47 pounds

[1032004]

21 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

If light heavy is where it's at then why did Tony Cassioppi go 97kg for the trials? Here are some key bullet points to factor in:

1) per this thread, a heavyweight between 235-245 is optimal.

2) Gable Steveson was not going to be at OTT.

3) 97kg is ruled by an all-timer.

4) at his NCAA largest, Cassioppi was regularly weighing over 260 so the long-term cut was 47 pounds

Mason Parris

vs common opponents 54 - 12
vs opponent 5 - 0
#4 Cassioppi, Anthony	03/16/23	W TF5 16 - 1 5:12

[Caveira]

Why does the ufc or professional boxing not need a 220 ish weight.   They literally print $$$$ based on weight classes.   Arguably (financially) fan interest is more important too…..   
 

ufc goes 170, 185, 205, 265 

boxing goes 175, 200, unlimited. 

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

 

Mason Parris

vs common opponents 54 - 12
vs opponent 5 - 0
#4 Cassioppi, Anthony	03/16/23	W TF5 16 - 1 5:12

Counterpoint:

[1032004]

37 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Counterpoint:

Well he lost to “tweener” Christian Carroll who hadn’t even won a college match yet in the Round of 16, so seems like he probably would have been better off at heavyweight 

Edited Sunday at 05:33 PM by 1032004

[1032004]

No offense to this guy from Cal Baptist, but him getting a start with a dual on the line is a great example of why we don’t need to water down heavyweight by adding an additional weight between 197 and 285…

 

 

 

[Caveira]

16 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

No offense to this guy from Cal Baptist, but him getting a start with a dual on the line is a great example of why we don’t need to water down heavyweight by adding an additional weight between 197 and 285…

 

 

 

The ufc sells fights.  If they could stack “more” quality fights by adding a weight they would.  It would either lead to more frequent ppv (more $) or more ppv sales (more $).   With injuries and just bla fights making their ppv better or more frequent is their sweet spot.  Why they don’t have a tweener weight should be a major tell as to why it won’t add to the growth of our sport.  

[BruceyB]

On 1/4/2025 at 5:58 AM, Gene Mills Fan said:

or to stay wrestling without moving on because theres a Hendrickson or kerkvliet that they have to eventually meet

Oh, give me a break. You think someone that wants to wrestle in college is going to leave the sport altogether because Kerkvliet is 256 pounds? D1 wrestlers are a different breed, they are going to make the best of their situation regardless of the weight. The argument should strictly be on creating more equity for the tweeners, and stop with this argument about these supposed wrestlers that are leaving the sport because of the weight class.

[Gene Mills Fan]

17 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Oh, give me a break. You think someone that wants to wrestle in college is going to leave the sport altogether because Kerkvliet is 256 pounds? D1 wrestlers are a different breed, they are going to make the best of their situation regardless of the weight. The argument should strictly be on creating more equity for the tweeners, and stop with this argument about these supposed wrestlers that are leaving the sport because of the weight class.

After watching the Nebraska Illinois GREAT match, and seeing maybe 500-700 in the stands, kinda agreeing with you guys; there's no growth to support it. Too bad for the tweeners. Like watching them taking on and beating the heavys.  They do need more equity because his top end in the division is what?  Because if he's wrestling Wyatt or Kerk, 200 or more of these people are walking out early.  We'll see how many 218 pounders get recruited or passed on. You guys are correct! If you don't want to wrestle the bigs you're a wussy. 

[1032004]

57 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

After watching the Nebraska Illinois GREAT match, and seeing maybe 500-700 in the stands, kinda agreeing with you guys; there's no growth to support it. Too bad for the tweeners. Like watching them taking on and beating the heavys.  They do need more equity because his top end in the division is what?  Because if he's wrestling Wyatt or Kerk, 200 or more of these people are walking out early.  We'll see how many 218 pounders get recruited or passed on. You guys are correct! If you don't want to wrestle the bigs you're a wussy. 

200 lol

[Gene Mills Fan]

On 1/4/2025 at 9:42 PM, 1032004 said:

Yeah, kinda, because most of the guys that weigh 275+ are slow and not that technical.  Nash Hutmacher, B1G football player cutting from over 300 lbs almost lost to a backup 197 last year.

nash hutchmaker was 7-8    EXACTLY!  The only reason he won is because he was 60 pounds heavier  

[1032004]

19 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

nash hutchmaker was 7-8    EXACTLY!  The only reason he won is because he was 60 pounds heavier  

But the guy I was referencing from Illinois ( @ILLINIWrestlingBlog, do you know what Marinopolous weighed?) wasn’t even good for 197.  Their 197 starter last year was 7-11.   

[Gene Mills Fan]

7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

But the guy I was referencing from Illinois ( @ILLINIWrestlingBlog, do you know what Marinopolous weighed?) wasn’t even good for 197.  Their 197 starter last year was 7-11.   

 

7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

But the guy I was referencing from Illinois ( @ILLINIWrestlingBlog, do you know what Marinopolous weighed?) wasn’t even good for 197.  Their 197 starter last year was 7-11.   

 

7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

But the guy I was referencing from Illinois ( @ILLINIWrestlingBlog, do you know what Marinopolous weighed?) wasn’t even good for 197.  Their 197 starter last year was 7-11.   

 

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

But the guy I was referencing from Illinois ( @ILLINIWrestlingBlog, do you know what Marinopolous weighed?) wasn’t even good for 197.  Their 197 starter last year was 7-11.   

The only downer in wrestling is overmatched heavyweight match. If the dual is over everyones leaving. If the duals over and theres a good match everyones staying.  When Lucas Davidson, Isaac Trumble, all the tweeners say they're good; I'll stop fighting for them, only because one little white girl hitting logo threes can make a difference.

[Caveira]

52 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

 

 

 

The only downer in wrestling is overmatched heavyweight match. If the dual is over everyones leaving. If the duals over and theres a good match everyones staying.  When Lucas Davidson, Isaac Trumble, all the tweeners say they're good; I'll stop fighting for them, only because one little white girl hitting logo threes can make a difference.

It’s been that way forever no?   Reality is a huge % of your avg hwt marches are sumo pushing contests.   The high level people are insanely talented and athletic but the Nth percentile are just big dudes.   Being big isn’t exciting.   Exciting is exciting.  
 

The excitement for the 1-1 overtime matches takes its toll on fans over the years and yes they leave.   I’ve seen at big state tourneys people not really staying for the hwt matches.  It is what it is bro.  
 

Sad yes.  

real as well?       yes…..

[Gene Mills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Caveira said:

It’s been that way forever no?   Reality is a huge % of your avg hwt marches are sumo pushing contests.   The high level people are insanely talented and athletic but the Nth percentile are just big dudes.   Being big isn’t exciting.   Exciting is exciting.  
 

The excitement for the 1-1 overtime matches takes its toll on fans over the years and yes they leave.   I’ve seen at big state tourneys people not really staying for the hwt matches.  It is what it is bro.  
 

Sad yes.  

real as well?       yes…..

 I can live with it we've all lived with it. Reality is what it is, it is NOT broken, you guys have made that clear. I am definitely not swayed that it is fair. 

[nhs67]

On 1/5/2025 at 10:13 AM, Caveira said:

Why does the ufc or professional boxing not need a 220 ish weight.   They literally print $$$$ based on weight classes.   Arguably (financially) fan interest is more important too…..   
 

ufc goes 170, 185, 205, 265 

boxing goes 175, 200, unlimited. 

285 - 197 = 88

265 - 205 = 60

88 =/= 60

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

11 hours ago, 1032004 said:

But the guy I was referencing from Illinois ( @ILLINIWrestlingBlog, do you know what Marinopolous weighed?) wasn’t even good for 197.  Their 197 starter last year was 7-11.   

 

Good enough to win two Big Ten duals for the ILLINI. Peter Marinopoulos was a true Freshman who gave up his redshirt to bump up to heavyweight because Luke Luffman was injured. 

As for the 197 pounder who started, he filled in for Zac Braunagel because of an Olympic redshirt. He was doing really well and progressing along until he injured his knee, then came back after surgery in about two or three weeks and finished the season. 

Both of those two are heroes, and I don't think their special situations help anybody's argument here. 

As for weight classes, the more the merrier. Why would anybody want fewer? There should be a weight class for every pound on the scale starting at 30 all the way to 1,000. Once you get past 1,000, it's not really wrestling any more. 

[Caveira]

25 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

285 - 197 = 88

265 - 205 = 60

88 =/= 60

You forgot boxing.  you also didn’t say anything other than some math.  What is your opinion.   Hard to tell with x - y = z.  

Unlimited - 200 is?   you forgot to answer the question.  If there is $ to be made with a full entertaining athletic awesome division ufc / boxing would add it.  Why would they not?  
 

do ufc people cut to make 205?  Don’t answer.  Yes they do.  If the gap is so much “better” why are ufc fighters still cutting to 205?   Maybe it’s a mystery.  
 

also a question I didn’t ask.  Why lower the high end weight for hwt in ufc.   Why 265 instead of unl or 275/285.  
 

Maybe bigger and bigger guys aren’t entertaining or athletic enough to draw ppv subscriptions?   

[BruceyB]

11 minutes ago, Caveira said:

You forgot boxing.  you also didn’t say anything other than some math.  What is your opinion.   Hard to tell with x - y = z.  

Unlimited - 200 is?   you forgot to answer the question.  If there is $ to be made with a full entertaining athletic awesome division ufc / boxing would add it.  Why would they not?  
 

do ufc people cut to make 205?  Don’t answer.  Yes they do.  If the gap is so much “better” why are ufc fighters still cutting to 205?   Maybe it’s a mystery.  
 

also a question I didn’t ask.  Why lower the high end weight for hwt in ufc.   Why 265 instead of unl or 275/285.  
 

Maybe bigger and bigger guys aren’t entertaining or athletic enough to draw ppv subscriptions?   

This may trigger some people, but I'd be in favor of lowering 285 if the problem is that the gap from 197 to 285 is too big. Are you telling me if he needed to, Cohlton Schultz couldn't lose 20 pounds? It might be harder to dig an underhook and push guys OB, but wouldn't that actually be for the good of the weight to increase the overall athleticism while lowering the weight disparity? I can't recall every seeing a 285 heavy that couldn't follow a diet plan to get to 265 if that was the weight. They don't because they simply don't have to.

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

They don't because they simply don't have to.

Or want to.   Had to say it.  I was a lightweight and cut 20 or there about lol.