Headgear Toss

[PortaJohn]

On 12/12/2024 at 9:57 PM, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Why not let Physics decide?

If the wrestler just tossed his headgear, there would have been a significant arc involved. The formula for velocity in relation to gravity is v = gt where "v" is the velocity, "g" is the acceleration due to gravity (approximately 9.8 m/s² on Earth), and "t" is the time elapsed; essentially, the velocity of a falling object is calculated by multiplying the acceleration due to gravity by the time it has been falling.

Let's use an analogy. I would consider a toss to be how you throw a baseball to your three-to-five-year-old boy when playing catch. A throw is what he starts to get when he is six. At seven, he gets the heat. 

That was a lateral/backward pitch which means the headgear was live and still in play.  Incorrect call for the ref to call the match dead.  

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

34 minutes ago, Gus said:

Actually the rule is addressed in a way that a headgear tossed toward a coaches bench, tossed to a coach or toward the edge of the mat is not a penalty. 

Here's another "tossed" in this thread. 

There is a VERY bright line test in the rule and the application example: Tosses are different than throws. The wrestler threw the headgear. I would go so far as to say he flung it. 

The ref had no choice. 

And my opinion is not based on the fact that I'm biased towards referees, who I believe are actual Saints that we should listen to and abide. 

[flyingcement]

29 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Here's another "tossed" in this thread. 

There is a VERY bright line test in the rule and the application example: Tosses are different than throws. The wrestler threw the headgear. I would go so far as to say he flung it. 

The ref had no choice. 

And my opinion is not based on the fact that I'm biased towards referees, who I believe are actual Saints that we should listen to and abide. 

The ref had a choice, but he made the wrong one. The Easton wrestler did not slam it to the floor or throw it into the crowd.  It's clearly outlined below.  

 

[ionel]

5 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

The issue here is between TOSS and THROW. The rule, as written, is strict liability. If you THROW your headgear, you will be penalized. As demonstrated above, a TOSS would have an arc on it. This was a THROW, zero question about that. I would be able to convince twelve jurors of that fact, I am confident. .

Could you convince these?  They look rather angry.

5 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

On a final note related to your post, the physical laws you describe actually work against the aerodynamics of headgear. That's why you never see headgear-shaped aircraft. Those physical laws actually bolster my argument because that headgear had to work against those physical laws to maintain that much speed in the air. 

My oldest was in Aero Eng.  Senior design project was always a specific build and then flight competition against other universities, their university usually won.  If the design specs had been flying headgear they could've made it fly fast.  

[BIGTENFANBOY]

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/nazareth/2013/05/former_nazareth_standout_wrest.html

[BAC]

13 hours ago, flyingcement said:

The ref had a choice, but he made the wrong one. The Easton wrestler did not slam it to the floor or throw it into the crowd.  It's clearly outlined below.  

 

That's a good find.  Right on point.  This was a really bad call by the ref.

[Wrestleknownothing]

"The referee must exercise sound judgement". He clearly did not.

[PencilNeck]

2 hours ago, BAC said:

That's a good find.  Right on point.  This was a really bad call by the ref.

I don’t know if it matters for the interpretation, but the headgear was discarded prior to the “end of match procedure” not after. Is taking off your headgear and flicking it aside after that final takedown in the same category as doing it on the way back to the bench or is it more like doing so between the first and second period?
 

That there is a rule (based on a judgment call!) on the books that allows for team points to be deducted for chucking a headgear is something that a detail oriented coach would warn their athletes about. 

 

i can’t actually tell if ILB, my favorite poster, is joking here or not. It does seems to me that the the ref is afforded leeway to make a judgement call. Again, very poor judgement in this case unless there some context about the red team being warned about headgear tossing/throwing already.

 

my perspective here is influenced by being a former track athlete and listening to coaches discuss in detail all the weird rules over how uniforms have to match for a relay team. I know all sports have quirky officials, but I do think track has a reputation for having some of the worst power trips by referees. I know that the coaches I mentioned above weren’t just basing their lectures on the rulebook, there was also real live examples of this that had to deal with over the years. Throwing a relay baton in celebration after a track race doesn’t get a team point deducted. It gets you DQed from the race. Just like in wrestling, these unnecessary rules tend to be more likely to be enforced the more important the competition is. Knowing all the rules is important. Needlessly flinging your equipment to the ground after a match is about as impressive to me as a kid who doesn’t know how to cover the bottom man in referee’s position. But that is all forgotten when noticing how smug the ref looked making that call. Who wants to win on a technicality anyway?

[gimpeltf]

15 minutes ago, PencilNeck said:

I don’t know if it matters for the interpretation, but the headgear was discarded prior to the “end of match procedure” not after. Is taking off your headgear and flicking it aside after that final takedown in the same category as doing it on the way back to the bench or is it more like doing so between the first and second period?

I was wondering much the same. Since the match didn't go all 6 minutes- couldn't the call be 1 match point and since it's now a 14 pt spread (I think- forget what the actual score was) do you keep going?

[BIGTENFANBOY]

15 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

"The referee must exercise sound judgement". He clearly did not.

He clearly didn't exercise sound judgement as a coach either. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 12/14/2024 at 4:26 PM, gimpeltf said:

I was wondering much the same. Since the match didn't go all 6 minutes- couldn't the call be 1 match point and since it's now a 14 pt spread (I think- forget what the actual score was) do you keep going?

Interesting question.  I don't have my rule book on me, but I believe the only two things that can change the outcome of an earned technical fall are a pin by the winning wrestler or a flagrant misconduct.

[gimpeltf]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Interesting question.  I don't have my rule book on me, but I believe the only two things that can change the outcome of an earned technical fall are a pin by the winning wrestler or a flagrant misconduct.

Good point

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

19 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Good point

... and they made it tougher to get the pin after a tech was earned in high school (new rule as of this year).