Josh Barr?

[Truzzcat]

34 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Not at all...

But when Marcus Blaze, Forrest or these types of kids walk onto a College Campus, we also won't pretend they're...just a couple kids fresh out of HS and no different than all the rest. 

It doesn't really matter ultimately, it won't until seeding time, but we now Barr pretty clearly appears to be a top 5-8 Wrestler at this point.

Agree with most all of what you said and this is just me nit picking but just looking at wrestle stat they have Munoz,Salazar,Glazier,Surber 7,8,9,10. While Barr beating any of them would not at all shock me I'm not sure I have seen enough yet to say if he had to beat one in the round of 16 and another in the round of 12 I would bet on him to win both of those matches.

[Le duke]

I often look at freestyle results as a predictor for college results, but two things results that always give me some skepticism are carter youngs third place at the world team trials in 2021 and Carson kharchla teching mehki during one of those covid rtc things. Im sure there are other examples.

I get it this perspective, but this is why I take a longer term view of FS results. A guy going on a once-in-a-lifetime heater or a guy beating a great opponent once doesn’t do it for me.

A guy like Lilledahl beating Forrest, Volk, Spratley at WTT and the Open over the last two years shows that he’s at a super high level, all the time. Not to mention being the World rep 4x in a row, making the final all four times. He’s not a flash in the pan.


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[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

Agree with most all of what you said and this is just me nit picking but just looking at wrestle stat they have Munoz,Salazar,Glazier,Surber 7,8,9,10. While Barr beating any of them would not at all shock me I'm not sure I have seen enough yet to say if he had to beat one in the round of 16 and another in the round of 12 I would bet on him to win both of those matches.

That's fair. You're not sure he could beat both and...of course, he could lose to any of them. At that level, it's common(ish) for the #13 seed to beat the #4 seed on the backside...or the frontside for that matter.

I guess I'd say either way, Cochran has sat behind NCs during his career. Brooks, Dean...that's his last 3 years. He's not just some guy. 

Mirasola. I'm not quite as sure he's on that level of being an AA as a True Freshmen(I do think he'll take a BIG jump this year in that room) but the original point, those two wins are telling to me. 

 

I may also hold guys like...Barraclough or Cochran in higher regard. I think if they go to another school and get a chance to start, they could have both been AA contenders or at least NQ and maybe Barraclough will be this year, but guys like Haines, Mesenbrink, Starr, Brooks, they win team titles, but those guys who stick it out and go up to 174 to wrestle Shane Griffith and they lose a 2-1 match at 174 or they go up from 197 and beat an AA at HWT, they're not just normal depth guys. They're important to your program. 

 

So we'll find out where Barr ranks in March in Philly, but I just don't like taking away from those guys like they're some 3-10 type backups. 

[bnwtwg]

18 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

So Mirasola's biggest accomplishment to you is a match he ALMOST won and got a single takedown in? Yea, you're right, you absolutely were a scrub based on this thought process.

I never finished higher than 4th in IL HS and never made it past the blood round, so by all objective measures in this conversation yes I was very much a scrub. Lighten up and have an extra ladle of gravy today.

[1032004]

10 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Not at all...

But when Marcus Blaze, Forrest or these types of kids walk onto a College Campus, we also won't pretend they're...just a couple kids fresh out of HS and no different than all the rest. 

It doesn't really matter ultimately, it won't until seeding time, but we now Barr pretty clearly appears to be a top 5-8 Wrestler at this point.

Blaze and Forrest already have wins over NCAA 2nd and 5th place finishers respectively in college folkstyle matches, so they will have an argument to be able to be ranked higher than Lilledahl and Barr before putting on a college singlet.

Edited November 28 by 1032004

[scourge165]

12 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Blaze and Forrest already have wins over NCAA 2nd and 5th place finishers respectively in college folkstyle matches, so they will have an argument to be able to be ranked higher than Lilledahl and Barr before putting on a college singlet.

That's fine. Didn't Mirasola have a win over Dean, a National Champ? And he was referred to as "a kid fresh out of HS." 

Lilledahl I believe has beaten Blaze multiple times. I don't particularly care where they're ranked coming in, they'll earn those rankings, I'm saying we know they're just not like normal Freshmen. Barr, Sinclair would fit the definition for me(if he wasn't going to RS and was going to go '84)...Lillendahl, Blaze, Jax, Basset...Duke. 

 

It's becoming common place for these Freshmen to be ready straight out of HS...which is still wild to me. 

[1032004]

41 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

That's fine. Didn't Mirasola have a win over Dean, a National Champ? And he was referred to as "a kid fresh out of HS." 

Lilledahl I believe has beaten Blaze times.

Not in college folkstyle matches

[Truzzcat]

22 hours ago, scourge165 said:

That's fine. Didn't Mirasola have a win over Dean, a National Champ? And he was referred to as "a kid fresh out of HS." 

Lilledahl I believe has beaten Blaze multiple times. I don't particularly care where they're ranked coming in, they'll earn those rankings, I'm saying we know they're just not like normal Freshmen. Barr, Sinclair would fit the definition for me(if he wasn't going to RS and was going to go '84)...Lillendahl, Blaze, Jax, Basset...Duke. 

 

It's becoming common place for these Freshmen to be ready straight out of HS...which is still wild to me. 

I believe blaze has 4 age level losses since hes been in high school

Deluca: ironman semi
Forrest: super 32 consi
Crapps: super 32 quarter
Davino: ironman finals

he beat LL in the 2021 ironman finals and at trials

 

[juniorvarsity]

On 11/27/2024 at 12:05 PM, Le duke said:

The problem with Flo and Intermat is that they rely upon results and not the eye test, if that makes sense. I understand why they do it and they are consistent but I don't think that's the best approach. 

Example: I didn't have to see Luke Lilledahl beat some guy ranked XXth in the country at 125 to put in him the top 16. I've seen him beat Jore Volk and Troy Spratley three times in the last two years. I get it, freestyle vs folk. I don't care. 

So do you think if you win or lose by major decision/tech fall/pin, it should have a greater impact on your ranking than the result of the match on your record? 

[Le duke]

So do you think if you win or lose by major decision/tech fall/pin, it should have a greater impact on your ranking than the result of the match on your record? 

I’m simply saying that no ranker (Flo, Intermat) actually, truly thinks that Luke Lilledahl wasn’t in the top 33 wrestlers in the country at 125 before he went out and pasted some guys I’d never heard of at Black Knight.

And, if they truly did not, how did beating those guys improve LL’s standing?


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