Islamic History

[Husker_Du]

any of our resident history buffs care to comment on this?

is it accurate?

 

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

Might not be the most reliable source there...

[uncle bernard]

51 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

any of our resident history buffs care to comment on this?

is it accurate?

 

I'll have to do some reading to check on the things I'm not sure about, but the most striking (and disingenuous) part of this is that almost every charge she levels at Islam's history can be equally, if not more so, levelled at the history of Christianity.

Systematic persecution of Jews? Check (and far more intense).

Religious conversion through military conquest? Check.

Oppression of women and minorities? Check.

Just on one topic I know she hilariously misrepresents, The Crusades.

In the 630s, the Byzantines surrendered Jerusalem to the Muslims after a short siege, ending 500 years of Roman control. The transfer was peaceful. For the first time in hundreds of years, Jews were permitted to return to live in Jerusalem in peace under Muslim control. Muslims and Jews largely lived in peace for the next several hundred years. Prior to the First Crusade, the Seljuk Turks parts of the Holy Land and made pilgrimage more difficult.  When the Christians launched the Crusades, persecution of Jews intensified in Europe and Jews in the Holy Land fought alongside Muslims to defend against the Crusaders. When the Christians took Jerusalem, they massacred the city's Muslim and Jews, including famously burning Jews alive in their synagogues. In contrast, when Saladin took the city back 100ish years later, he did not massacre the Christians. Instead, he allowed Christian pilgrims to continue to travel to Jerusalem and showed tolerance towards its Christian inhabitants. However, 50 years later, after 10 years of Christian control secured by a peace treaty, Jerusalem fell once again to a Muslim army and that army sacked the city and massacred 6000 Christians who were promised safe passage. Neither side is guiltless. It was a horrific cycle of violence.

I don't have all day to pick apart the rest, but safe to say, anybody who claims to reduce 1500 years of complex history into 15 minutes is full of shit, and I think you probably knew that, which is why you asked. Neither Christianity nor Islam have a pure history. Both histories are filled with violence and oppression alongside incredible advances in art, philosophy, technology, etc...

 

[uncle bernard]

And just an overall note because she describes Islam as being particularly anti-Semitic, anti-Semitism is a largely Christian, European phenomena. Obviously, there has been anti-Semitism by Muslims historically, but it pales by comparison in scale and intensity to the anti-Semitism of Christian Europe.

[Husker_Du]

bernard, you know that literally, today, most muslim countries/sects want to annihilate all Jews and the state of Israel, right?

but go off about christians. 

[Scouts Honor]

come on husker

just the other day , the pope was saying we must rid the earth of da jooooss  once and for all

[Undefeated]

1 hour ago, Husker_Du said:

bernard, you know that literally, today, most muslim countries/sects want to annihilate all Jews and the state of Israel, right?

but go off about christians. 

ٔNot most of them. The difference between you or anyone else who does not live in a Muslim country -like Iran, where I live- and does not want annihilate the state of Israel with muslim people is not in your religion but in your media.

Edited October 9 by Undefeated

[Scouts Honor]

so all of them?

maybe all of the GOVTs? 

[Danny Deck]

I think the governments are way ahead of the people in Muslim countries on having a normal relationship with Israel. See The Abraham Accords, which were done despite not being popular in those countries.

[Scouts Honor]

interesting! thanks danny

[Husker_Du]

16 hours ago, Undefeated said:

ٔNot most of them. The difference between you or anyone else who does not live in a Muslim country -like Iran, where I live- and does not want annihilate the state of Israel with muslim people is not in your religion but in your media.

as we speak, Iran is literally trying to annihilate Israel .

[uncle bernard]

19 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

bernard, you know that literally, today, most muslim countries/sects want to annihilate all Jews and the state of Israel, right?

but go off about christians. 

That's not actually true. But yes, there is a Muslim anti-Semitism problem today that stems from the political situation forced on Palestine in the 1940s. They were essentially punished for Christian Europe's historic anti-semitism and as a result, anti-semitism has grown alongside the violence and land disputes. But it's mostly a modern phenomena and you asked about the video claiming to describe 1500 years of Muslim history and it was bunk. Sorry you didn't like the answer.

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, Husker_Du said:

as we speak, Iran is literally trying to annihilate Israel .

And Israel is trying to annihilate Iran. 

At some point, if you actually care about this stopping, you have to acknowledge Israel's role in this disaster. They didn't accidentally double their control of the land since the partition, which itself was never agreed to by the people who already lived there.

Like any country, Israel has its own goals and desires. From its inception, the goal of Zionism is to re-establish Jewish control of the region as possible, including southern Lebanon and western Jordan. As they continue to work towards those goals, the region will increasingly heat up. You can't take land like this without backlash.

If the US occupied Ontario, nobody would pretend Canada doesn't have a right to oppose that occupation. That double standard only applies to Palestine.

 

[red viking]

"God told us that that land was ours." 

This type of thinking is ALWAYS going to be a disaster. Zionism IS a disaster. Always was and always will be and we shouldn't have anything to do with that garbage. 

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

 They were essentially punished for Christian Europe's historic anti-semitism and as a result, anti-semitism has grown alongside the violence and land disputes. 

you are saying europe forced them to the middle east..

not that the isrealites wanted to go back to the promised land? 

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

And Israel is trying to annihilate Iran. 

 

 

if isreal wanted to... it would be done. If Iran had a nuke. isreal would be gone. which is why obama was a fool to let the nuclear deal go through.

just like all this genocide talk

they are the worst genociders in history

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

And Israel is trying to annihilate Iran. 

At some point, if you actually care about this stopping, you have to acknowledge Israel's role in this disaster. They didn't accidentally double their control of the land since the partition, which itself was never agreed to by the people who already lived there.

Like any country, Israel has its own goals and desires. From its inception, the goal of Zionism is to re-establish Jewish control of the region as possible, including southern Lebanon and western Jordan. As they continue to work towards those goals, the region will increasingly heat up. You can't take land like this without backlash.

If the US occupied Ontario, nobody would pretend Canada doesn't have a right to oppose that occupation. That double standard only applies to Palestine.

 

you forget why isreal did this

[Tripnsweep]

4 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

as we speak, Iran is literally trying to annihilate Israel .

They obviously aren't trying very hard or there would be a large scale war going on right now.

Do you ever get tired of sounding or looking stupid when you talk about things you have no clue about?

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

3 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

They obviously aren't trying very hard or there would be a large scale war going on right now.

Do you ever get tired of sounding or looking stupid when you talk about things you have no clue about?

Charlie Brown has moved on from Lucy and the football to Middle East history!

[Scouts Honor]

12 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

They obviously aren't trying very hard or there would be a large scale war going on right now.

 

you must have missed it

[Tripnsweep]

52 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

you must have missed it

I didn't miss it. Iran is much more capable than that. 

[Scouts Honor]

all those missiles just for show.

hezbollah bombing isreal for a year

hamas attacks on oct 7 and subsequent missile barrages into isreal

 

yes, so very capable. they fooled our admins into giving them what they wanted

[Lipdrag]

3 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

I didn't miss it. Iran is much more capable than that. 

How?  They can't send a land army unless they march it through Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan.  Their Navy?!?  To attack from where, the Mediterranean Sea after going around the horn of Africa or the Suez canal??? Air Force - 50 year old F-14s and older F-4s with no refueling capability and would get eaten alive by Israel's air force.  So, lobbing missiles is all they can do now that their terrorist fanatics - the Houthis, Hezbollah, and Hamas - have done things despicable enough to incite resolute retribution.  Iran's only hope is to do something despicable enough that it lures the USA in which then escalates above a little Jewish-Persian spat.  That is entirely possible but has nothing to do with Iran's warfighting capabilities.  At least until they get a nuke.

[Tripnsweep]

3 hours ago, Lipdrag said:

How?  They can't send a land army unless they march it through Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan.  Their Navy?!?  To attack from where, the Mediterranean Sea after going around the horn of Africa or the Suez canal??? Air Force - 50 year old F-14s and older F-4s with no refueling capability and would get eaten alive by Israel's air force.  So, lobbing missiles is all they can do now that their terrorist fanatics - the Houthis, Hezbollah, and Hamas - have done things despicable enough to incite resolute retribution.  Iran's only hope is to do something despicable enough that it lures the USA in which then escalates above a little Jewish-Persian spat.  That is entirely possible but has nothing to do with Iran's warfighting capabilities.  At least until they get a nuke.

They do have a capable military. But if they wanted a large scale conflict now, it would have happened. I believe they have somewhere near 1 million active duty in their military with around half that number in the reserve forces. It isn't like Iran is some backwards place. The only thing keeping them back is knowing Israel would carpet bomb them to hell in retaliation for anything. Like if they tried to take out Tel Aviv or something. Iran doesn't want it, but to suggest this is the best they've got is absurd. 

[Lipdrag]

8 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

The only thing keeping them back is knowing Israel would carpet bomb them to hell in retaliation for anything.

Deterrrence.  Works every time it is tried.  The ability and will to make the other guy (and everyone the other guy loves) die for his cause is the best generator of peace ever known.

"They do have a capable military. But if they wanted a large scale conflict now, it would have happened. I believe they have somewhere near 1 million active duty in their military with around half that number in the reserve forces. It isn't like Iran is some backwards place. . . . Like if they tried to take out Tel Aviv or something. Iran doesn't want it, but to suggest this is the best they've got is absurd. "

Iran does have the will to take out Tel Aviv and every Jew on the planet.  They have stated this is their goal many times.  They don't have the capability or else they would have done it.  The alternative is that they are lying.  I respect Iran enough to believe that when they say they want something that it is the truth.  They simply do not have the capability to get what they want with their million man army and 1/2 million reserves so they use the H-tards (Houthi, Hezbollah, Hamas) to harass Israel and die for them.  When will the H-tards figure out they are being played?  I guess the money for the top H's is good enough for them to cause (and be solely responsible for) their kinsmen, kinswomen, kinsparents, and kinschildren (whom they hide behind) to die.

Edited October 10 by Lipdrag