At the Debate Tonight

[Wrestleknownothing]

15 minutes ago, jross said:

If there are 10 tiers of performance, with tier 10 the worst... both Kamala and Trump were in that tier.  

While I know I will not sway you from your opinion, almost no one shares it with you.

And from Polymarkets:

Before the debate Trump lead Harris 52 to 46 in their "Who will win the election?" market, he now trails 49 to 50.

[jross]

@Wrestleknownothing  Oh I agree Kamala outperformed Trump by some measures (not all).  You can't convince me that Kamala did well.  

[jross]

49 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

#Wishcasting

Just take the L.  She whooped his ass.  It won't matter much in terms of what happens in the election, maybe a point or two temporary bump, but she demolished him. 

Can you admit she still sucked while outperforming Trump overall?

Edited September 13 by jross

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, jross said:

If there are 10 tiers of performance, with tier 10 the worst... both Kamala and Trump were in that tier.  

MAGA is having a real hard time with reality, even more so than usual.   I would be lying if I said I wasn't enjoying the meltdown a little bit, like visions coming to fruition.

[jross]

On August 25, 1922, the Phillies and Cubs set a record with a final score of 26-23, but... lets be real... while one pitcher technically got the win, all the pitchers were awful.

Hey pitcher, enjoy your win.  LOL.

We all lost with that debate.

[jross]

Calling someone MAGA is one of the best compliments... irrespective of one's political support.

 

[headshuck]

Even Biden is coming around.

[VakAttack]

10 minutes ago, jross said:

Can you admit she still sucked while outperforming Trump overall?

She didn't suck.  She wasn't "amazing" either, but she had a plan and she executed it pretty flawlessly.  She gave a standard debate performance where the candidate doesn't answer most of the actual questions and instead tries to pivot to an area where he or she feels they're stronger.  This SOP for political debates for as long as I can remember, unfortunately.  She set really obvious traps for Trump and he just stepped on the rake over and over again, because he's an easily-manipulated dope.

[headshuck]

I’ll agree with that. How do think she would do if she was fact-checked multiple times and asked a pressing secondary question intended to put her on the spot like the Ukraine followup question of Trump?

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, headshuck said:

I’ll agree with that. How do think she would do if she was fact-checked multiple times and asked a pressing secondary question intended to put her on the spot like the Ukraine followup question of Trump?

I think there's a difference between fact checking a framing of an issue, which should be left to the candidates, and fact checking just blatantly untrue, inflammatory things.  The only place where I thought the fact checking was inappropriate was where David Muir said he didn't detect sarcasm when Trump said he was being sarcastic about saying he "lost by a whisker".  I think Muir is probably right, having listened to Trump's Lex Fridman interview, but that's a matter of opinion and framing, and should have been left to Harris to address, if she wanted to.  Just saying wild lies about Democrats allowing post birth abortions and that a whole swath of immigrants were eating cats and dogs in a local neighborhood required a fact check.  The reason he got fact checked more is because he lied more.  She played politics more.

She was asked follow up questions on more than a couple of occasions, and she just did the same thing I sai above; she pivoted.  I don't like that this is how our politicians debate now, but that's how they all do it.  Trump did it to, when he wasn't saying his crazy shit.  There were many fact checks that could have been put on Trump but weren't, because they were more about fraing and hyperbole, like him claiming this is the worst inflation ever (clearly not), or him claiming he "saved the Affordable Care Act", etc.  None of those got moderator pushback, and there were countless other examples.  Only the most egregious things (other than the Muir "no sarcasm detected" thing) received push back.

[jross]

Democrat voters saw Kamala beat Trump.  Trump supporters saw a three-on-one attack with zero concern for the facts.  I expect we all saw poor content on policy and detail.

I was most impressed with Kamala's closure ending on a positive, whereas Trump closed with Kamala attacks.  Kamala's articulation, confidence, and control had a passing grade while her argument evidence, support, and content relevance warrants an F.

For me, the content was an F and it holds a higher weight than the delivery.

[jross]

14 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

...wild lies about Democrats allowing post birth abortions and that a whole swath of immigrants were eating cats and dogs in a local neighborhood required a fact check. 

...The reason he got fact checked more is because he lied more.  She played politics more.

I might watch this shitty debate again to fact check but as wild as the two things are, there are truths to both of these.

1. Democrats allowing post birth abortions
   1. There are multiple real cases where doctors do not attempt to preserve the born alive baby's life, rather they completely neglect (worst case) or provide palliative care (best case).  Magic words are used that distract.  Neglecting to preserve a born alive baby's live is not technically murder but it feels just as shitty to me.
2. Immigrants were eating cats and dogs 
   1. There were actual watchable videos and evidence of cat eating on X before the debate.  And there were Haitian citizens describing on video (on X) that Haitians eat cats and kill cats both for poverty/hunger and voodoo reasons.

[VakAttack]

18 minutes ago, jross said:

I might watch this shitty debate again to fact check but as wild as the two things are, there are truths to both of these.

1. Democrats allowing post birth abortions
   1. There are multiple real cases where doctors do not attempt to preserve the born alive baby's life, rather they completely neglect (worst case) or provide palliative care (best case).  Magic words are used that distract.  Neglecting to preserve a born alive baby's live is not technically murder but it feels just as shitty to me.

 

What Trump (and presumably you) keep referencing is Ralph Northam, the former governor of Virginia (not West Virginia as Trump keeps saying) a pediatric neurologist, talking about what happens if a non-viable fetus or one with a severe deformity was born.  The other stuff you're talking about "post birth neglect", I'll read whatever info you have, because I just spent the last 30 minutes Googling and using other search engines to find anything about "neglecting the baby" psot-birth other than the talking point similar to yours that there are "multiple real cases."

18 minutes ago, jross said:

1. Immigrants were eating cats and dogs 
   1. There were actual watchable videos and evidence of cat eating on X before the debate.  And there were Haitian citizens describing on video (on X) that Haitians eat cats and kill cats both for poverty/hunger and voodoo reasons.

There is one video, from Canton, Ohio of an apparently life-long Canton resident, not a Haitian immigrant, in the midst of either a mental health or drug-induced crisis.  There is so far zero direct evidence of Haitian immigrants eating cats and dogs here in America, whether in Springfield, Ohio (where the original claim is made) or anywhere else.  Every single "report" on this issue so far is somebody's neighbor who says they heard.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/no-evidence-haitian-immigrants-stealing-eating-pets-ohio-2024-09-10/

AS near as I can tell, these claims started circulating around the time that this man, identifying himself as "Nathaniel Higgers", spoke at the Springfield County Commission.  He self-identifies as Nathaniel Higgers, I have no idea if that is his actual name, and that he is a member of "Blood Pride", a Neo-Nazi group.  Nate Higgers is a common theme/fake name used in these circles because...well, I think you can figure it out if you look at the name hard enough.

This is it.  These are the people that are originating the claims that have no basis in fact that you are accepting and that people on the right including the candidates for president and vice president are amplifying.

[Offthemat]

Look at the language in the pro-abortion bills.  They don’t want any restrictions or guidelines.  Even in Europe, abortions after about 15 weeks are strongly regulated.  

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

What Trump (and presumably you) keep referencing is Ralph Northam, the former governor of Virginia (not West Virginia as Trump keeps saying) a pediatric neurologist, talking about what happens if a non-viable fetus or one with a severe deformity was born.  The other stuff you're talking about "post birth neglect", I'll read whatever info you have, because I just spent the last 30 minutes Googling and using other search engines to find anything about "neglecting the baby" psot-birth other than the talking point similar to yours that there are "multiple real cases."

There is one video, from Canton, Ohio of an apparently life-long Canton resident, not a Haitian immigrant, in the midst of either a mental health or drug-induced crisis.  There is so far zero direct evidence of Haitian immigrants eating cats and dogs here in America, whether in Springfield, Ohio (where the original claim is made) or anywhere else.  Every single "report" on this issue so far is somebody's neighbor who says they heard.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/no-evidence-haitian-immigrants-stealing-eating-pets-ohio-2024-09-10/

AS near as I can tell, these claims started circulating around the time that this man, identifying himself as "Nathaniel Higgers", spoke at the Springfield County Commission.  He self-identifies as Nathaniel Higgers, I have no idea if that is his actual name, and that he is a member of "Blood Pride", a Neo-Nazi group.  Nate Higgers is a common theme/fake name used in these circles because...well, I think you can figure it out if you look at the name hard enough.

This is it.  These are the people that are originating the claims that have no basis in fact that you are accepting and that people on the right including the candidates for president and vice president are amplifying.

And since his tirade of nonsense during the debate there has been incidents of violence in Springfield and bomb threats at city hall, directly related to these lies.  This is a glimpse of what life under the new Trump would look like. Lies and lies that influence violence (we’ve seen that movie before right?). 
 

Make America Great Again could be the best of compliments, if it was anything more than some comfy words to suck in the sheep, and if it wasn’t for the fact that America IS GREAT

But MAGA is a sub cult of treachery that will in no way, shape, or form improve or progress America. And the sheep will one day have to come to terms with what they’ve parroted and flocked to during this era.  
 

And I’m here for every bit of the meltdown and watching the fever break. So far, it hasn’t disappointed in the beginning stages. 

Edited September 13 by WrestlingRasta

[jross]

@VakAttack

An Ohio lady really did kill and eat a cat but she is not an immigrant and it didn't occur in Springfield.  She was just crazy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxPh-jCtDcE).  This was smear against immigrants for malicious purposes.  It is believable because there are multiple reports like this (https://x.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1833986686348656817) about the immigrants in Ohio doing so.  There is video footage of live cat eating in other countries (https://x.com/Highway_30/status/1834417292127465965).  And there are stories like this "The majority of the island does practice Voodoo the reason they eat cats... (hunger, voodoo)" (https://www.tiktok.com/@faidiarebekah/video/7413509385076460842)

 

Edited September 13 by jross

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, jross said:

On August 25, 1922, the Phillies and Cubs set a record with a final score of 26-23, but... lets be real... while one pitcher technically got the win, all the pitchers were awful.

Hey pitcher, enjoy your win.  LOL.

We all lost with that debate.

The American voter lost the most. Hopefully America can see through all the smoke and mirrors.

[WrestlingRasta]

So we don’t really trust the media, we don’t hate the media enough, unless it’s something from social media that makes me feel fuzzier about the shit heads I’m supporting.  Makes sense. 

The dive is deep. 

[jross]

@VakAttack - Born Alive Neglect.  Read https://www.heritage.org/life/report/the-necessity-the-born-alive-abortion-survivors-protection-act

If that isn't enough, I'll provide more specifics.

 

[jross]

33 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Make America Great Again could be the best of compliments, if it was anything more than some comfy words to suck in the sheep, and if it wasn’t for the fact that America IS GREAT

MAGA reminds me of what I'd like to see brought back.

MAGA inspires like a long list of slogans before it...

[VakAttack]

21 minutes ago, jross said:

@VakAttack

An Ohio lady really did kill and eat a cat but she is not an immigrant and it didn't occur in Springfield.  She was just crazy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxPh-jCtDcE).  This was smear against immigrants for malicious purposes.  It is believable because there are multiple reports like this (https://x.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1833986686348656817) about the immigrants in Ohio doing so.  There is video footage of live cat eating in other countries (https://x.com/Highway_30/status/1834417292127465965).  And there are stories like this "The majority of the island does practice Voodoo the reason they eat cats... (hunger, voodoo)" (https://www.tiktok.com/@faidiarebekah/video/7413509385076460842)

 

Stop.  It wasn't true.  Trump and Vance are the presidential and vice presidential candidates for the Republican Party, not a nobody on Twitter.  This was easily verifiable and is having very real, very negative effects on very real Haitian immigrants in Springfielwd, OH.

Edited September 13 by VakAttack

[jross]

First Question: When it comes to the economy, do you believe Americans are better off than they were four years ago?

• Kamala: So, I was raised as a middle-class kid...  We know that we have a shortage of homes and housing, and the cost of housing is too expensive for far too many people. We know that young families need support to raise their children...  
  • Real meaning: Does not acknowledge that things are worse.  Talks about the future only.
• Donald: ...We have inflation like very few people have ever seen before. Probably the worst in our nation's history. We were at 21%. But that's being generous because many things are 50, 60, 70, and 80% higher than they were just a few years ago. This has been a disaster for people, for the middle class, but for every class...  I created one of the greatest economies in the history of our country. I'll do it again and even better.
  • Real meaning: Strong (but indirect) that things are worse and that he will make it better.

Potential Lies

• TRUE: Cost of house is too expensive for too many people.
• FALSE: Inflation was not 21%.  It is the highest in the past 40 years but not the worst in our nation's history.
• TRUE: Many things are 50-80% higher than just a few years ago.
• TRUE: Trump's economic standing pre-COVID would place him favorably compared to other post-WWII presidents in terms of stock market gains, unemployment rates, and wage growth. 

Criticisms

• Kamala never answers the question and ends with an attack on Trump.
• Trump rebuts the attack as an opening and then answers the question.
• Neither candidate answers the question immediately and as direct as possible.
• The transcript is full of facts, inaccuracies, lies, and exaggerations by both candidates.
  • https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-trump-presidential-debate-transcript/story?id=113560542

[jross]

5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Stop.  It wasn't true.  Trump and Vance are the presidential and vice presidential candidates for the Republican Party, not a nobody on Twitter.  This was easily verifiable and is having very real, very negative effects on very real Haitian immigrants in Springfielwd, OH.

I mean its sounds crazy and unbelievable until you ask the question "How many citizens are in on the conspiracy?"  One or two... okay whatever.  Its a lot of unique stories from different people in Ohio.

[VakAttack]

5 minutes ago, jross said:

I mean its sounds crazy and unbelievable until you ask the question "How many citizens are in on the conspiracy?"  One or two... okay whatever.  Its a lot of unique stories from different people in Ohio.

It's not.  It all started after these claims started being amplified and every single "report" is second and third hand.  Where are all these actual victims?  It's made up and, again, real people are suffering due to this.  Real human beings, and you're attitude is part of the reason. 

Edited September 13 by VakAttack

[Paul158]

30 million dogs and 10 million cats are slaughtered each year for human consumption, worldwide. I had no idea it was so prevalent. China, and France although not illegal for now likes their cats and dogs. Vietnam, its legal. Cameroon and Australia its legal. Yum,yum.

Edited September 13 by Paul158
missed a word