Big Government

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

rasta already posted the department's justification (though I suspect it will be used for more than water rescues). what do you want from me?

have you answered my question from yesterday yet? it feels unfair that I always answer yours and you always dodge mine.

Don’t twist my words in your bid to argue at all cost.
 

I didn’t post the departments justification, or anything of the sort. I posted how it was obtained, and the primary use. Of course it will be used for other things. It is a MUTLI FUNCTIONAL vehicle. 

[uncle bernard]

Just now, Bigbrog said:

Thank God you are not a police chief...sending 2-4 officers to a house party fight with deadly weapons is completely asinine and totally unsafe.  2-4 police could EASILY get over and thus would cause the police to use deadly force in order to not have that happen...it actually increases the chance of very bad things from happening.  However, if you show up in force it would instantly stop the fight, and the kid with the knife would be subdued rather quickly and in a non-violent way.  You would be fired very quickly if you were chief.  

Okay, mr. police expert lol

It wasn't to a house party. The knifeman had fled the scene when the call was made. 

Want to know what actually happened when they showed up in force?

The police dogs seriously injured several high schoolers who were present (one nearly bled out from a bite on his leg). This after the police were told the suspect was no longer present (he left before the call was even made to 911). The suspect turned himself in 2 hours later. Great job everybody!

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Don’t twist my words in your bid to argue at all cost.
 

I didn’t post the departments justification, or anything of the sort. I posted how it was obtained, and the primary use. Of course it will be used for other things. It is a MUTLI FUNCTIONAL vehicle. 

I wasn't trying to twist your words. Your information was very good. 

Just trying to understand what more @mspart wants from me. I can't tell if he wants the department's justification or mine because he's trying to imply because I'm a leftist I have to justify all government spending. 

[Bigbrog]

3 minutes ago, braves121 said:

not the best argument when there are examples of places like the town of Uvalde's police department being armed to the teeth and having an astronomical budget and look how they reacted. Maybe high budgets and military equipment is not a blanket solution for policing in this country lol

Wow...just wow.  You do realize you are using the most tired and weak approach to discussion and debate there possible could be?  The painting of a broad brush and the generalization of things you know nothing about is ridiculous.  SMH...here I go...you trying to make an argument about police budgets and how well they are armed to bad decisions being made by officers in an isolated terrible situation holds zero water to your argument.  Second...high budgets (whatever that means to you) and "military equipment" (again whatever that means to you) is not, nor has ever been a solution for this whole country, ex. the town I live in doesn't have what I am going to assume you would consider military equipment, nor do most of the surrounding well populated communities.  

[uncle bernard]

3 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Wow...just wow.  You do realize you are using the most tired and weak approach to discussion and debate there possible could be?  The painting of a broad brush and the generalization of things you know nothing about is ridiculous.  SMH...here I go...you trying to make an argument about police budgets and how well they are armed to bad decisions being made by officers in an isolated terrible situation holds zero water to your argument.  Second...high budgets (whatever that means to you) and "military equipment" (again whatever that means to you) is not, nor has ever been a solution for this whole country, ex. the town I live in doesn't have what I am going to assume you would consider military equipment, nor do most of the surrounding well populated communities.  

I think you'd be surprised.

Are you a police officer? You seem to imply you have special knowledge here but haven't said explicitly.

Edited June 6 by uncle bernard

[Bigbrog]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

I think you'd be surprised.

SMH...be surprised about what??  That there in fact is "military equipment"??  That isn't an assumption...I know for a fact.  I know a lot of the police officers here including the ex-chief who is one of my good friends, not to mention one of my other best buddies who works in the investigative arm of the FBI and works with pretty much every police department in the state....so nice try.  They would absolutely laugh and shake their head at how ridiculous some of the things you and young braves are saying.  

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Bigbrog said:

SMH...be surprised about what??  That there in fact is "military equipment"??  That isn't an assumption...I know for a fact.  I know a lot of the police officers here including the ex-chief who is one of my good friends, not to mention one of my other best buddies who works in the investigative arm of the FBI and works with pretty much every police department in the state....so nice try.  They would absolutely laugh and shake their head at how ridiculous some of the things you and young braves are saying.  

And they've given you a full rundown of the armories of all the surrounding departments? That seems odd.

It's not a conspiracy. It's public record that tons of departments in this country buy military surplus equipment from the government at a reduced rate.

[braves121]

10 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Wow...just wow.  You do realize you are using the most tired and weak approach to discussion and debate there possible could be?  The painting of a broad brush and the generalization of things you know nothing about is ridiculous.  SMH...here I go...you trying to make an argument about police budgets and how well they are armed to bad decisions being made by officers in an isolated terrible situation holds zero water to your argument.  Second...high budgets (whatever that means to you) and "military equipment" (again whatever that means to you) is not, nor has ever been a solution for this whole country, ex. the town I live in doesn't have what I am going to assume you would consider military equipment, nor do most of the surrounding well populated communities.  

your town's police/populated communities police forces don't use assault rifles? they don't have SWAT?

[mspart]

So now UB is telling Bigbrog what his local police department has without a single shread of intelligence or evidence.  UB is telling Bigbrog he has not had the conversations he has had and that he doesn't know what he is talking about.   UB doesn't even know Bigbrog or where he lives.   In the words of Pigs (three different ones) from Pink Floyd's Animals,

UB you're nearly a laugh, your nearly a laugh but you're really a cry.  

mspart

[WrestlingRasta]

Just now, mspart said:

So now UB is telling Bigbrog what his local police department has without a single shread of intelligence or evidence.  UB is telling Bigbrog he has not had the conversations he has had and that he doesn't know what he is talking about.   UB doesn't even know Bigbrog or where he lives.   In the words of Pigs (three different ones) from Pink Floyd's Animals,

UB you're nearly a laugh, your nearly a laugh but you're really a cry.  

mspart

Dude, when you can pull an Animals reference out of your hat like that, even getting as specific as the three different ones…….winner winner chicken dinner. 

[WrestlingRasta]

To pull another line from that album that perfectly fits here…..

 

”gotta admit, I’m a little bit confused”

[Bigbrog]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

And they've given you a full rundown of the armories of all the surrounding departments? That seems odd.

It's not a conspiracy. It's public record that tons of departments in this country buy military surplus equipment from the government at a reduced rate.

Of course they don't give me a rundown of all the equipment of surrounding communities, but we have spoken about people claiming police forces are becoming more militarized based on the stupid MSM and they have indicated that people think everyone has these "tanks" and such, but it's usually the bigger cities in our state that do and none around our area other than the big city we live next too.

I grew up around police...my older stepbrother was a cop for like 30 years in a bad city in Illinois and did like 3 ride alongs with him, did several here in the big city I live by with one of my dad's friends, and started to fill out the application, but decided against it for several different reasons.  Also, like I said I have good friends i that are currently in that profession.  Thus, I know I am biased and I view most in the profession as true hero's and 100% selfless for what they do (of course there are bad apples, but that doesn't define an entire industry like some like to do).  

[uncle bernard]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

So now UB is telling Bigbrog what his local police department has without a single shread of intelligence or evidence.  UB is telling Bigbrog he has not had the conversations he has had and that he doesn't know what he is talking about.   UB doesn't even know Bigbrog or where he lives.   In the words of Pigs (three different ones) from Pink Floyd's Animals,

UB you're nearly a laugh, your nearly a laugh but you're really a cry.  

mspart

still haven't answered my question.

I haven't told him what his department has for sure. I don't have that information. What I can say is that I bet he's wrong because tons of department have it.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2023/09/07/1033-program-provides-military-surplus-indiana-police-departments-mwrap-bearcat/70740313007/

"Up to $7.6 billion in excess military property has been reallocated to roughly 9,000 police jurisdictions around the country since the program's inception in the 1990s."

[mspart]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

To pull another line from that album that perfectly fits here…..

 

”gotta admit, I’m a little bit confused”

Sometimes it seems to me, as if I'm just being used.

mspart

[braves121]

3 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Of course they don't give me a rundown of all the equipment of surrounding communities, but we have spoken about people claiming police forces are becoming more militarized based on the stupid MSM and they have indicated that people think everyone has these "tanks" and such, but it's usually the bigger cities in our state that do and none around our area other than the big city we live next too.

I grew up around police...my older stepbrother was a cop for like 30 years in a bad city in Illinois and did like 3 ride alongs with him, did several here in the big city I live by with one of my dad's friends, and started to fill out the application, but decided against it for several different reasons.  Also, like I said I have good friends i that are currently in that profession.  Thus, I know I am biased and I view most in the profession as true hero's and 100% selfless for what they do (of course there are bad apples, but that doesn't define an entire industry like some like to do).  

I think when an entire industry does everything in its power to not punish bad apples it does kind of define the whole industry. Qualified Immunity, the fact lawsuits are paid out by the tax payer and not offending police officer, and Police Unions are the reason there are bad apples

Edited June 6 by braves121

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, mspart said:

Sometimes it seems to me, as if I'm just being used.

mspart

Why won't you answer the simple question I've posed? It's very straightforward. 

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, braves121 said:

I think when an entire industry does everything in its power to not punish bad apples it does kind of define the whole industry. Qualified Immunity and Police Unions are the reason there are bad apples

If it were just a few bad apples and they were appropriately punished instead of protected, we'd be in a much safer place.

[mspart]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

I haven't told him what his department has for sure. I don't have that information. What I can say is that I bet he's wrong because tons of department have it.

You don't know what his department has, but try to tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about when he has talked to these people who are his friends.  

You are trying to suggest that police departments have things, but you don't know for sure.   So why put that out there?   Stupid really.   Of course you don't have that information.   So why put such statements out there when you don't even know?   Stupid really.   You can bet all you want, doesn't make it true.   You have admitted you don't know.   You should stand by that. 

mspart

[uncle bernard]

12 minutes ago, braves121 said:

your town's police/populated communities police forces don't use assault rifles? they don't have SWAT?

live look at @Bigbrog local cops

[mspart]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Why won't you answer the simple question I've posed? It's very straightforward. 

mspart

[uncle bernard]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

You don't know what his department has, but try to tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about when he has talked to these people who are his friends.  

You are trying to suggest that police departments have things, but you don't know for sure.   So why put that out there?   Stupid really.   Of course you don't have that information.   So why put such statements out there when you don't even know?   Stupid really.   You can bet all you want, doesn't make it true.   You have admitted you don't know.   You should stand by that. 

mspart

No, I do know what police departments have because it's public record. And most of them have military-grade equipment, so I'm willing to bet his does too, whether he knows it or not.

if he posted his town, which he shouldn't, we could probably find out for sure.

Edited June 6 by uncle bernard

[uncle bernard]

Just now, mspart said:

mspart

it looks like you're afraid to answer. i wonder why

[mspart]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

No, I do know what police departments have because it's public record. And most of them have military-grade equipment, so I'm willing to bet his does too, whether he knows it or not.

if he posted his town, which he shouldn't, we could probably find out for sure.

You being willing to bet is not what your argument is.   You are saying here that his local PD has these things.   But then you said you don't know but would be willing to bet.    And you have no idea where he lives.   Too funny.

mspart

[mspart]

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

it looks like you're afraid to answer. i wonder why

Think what you want UB.   You received your answer.  The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it is not a concern of mine at all.   You didn't answer my Yes or No question.   You answered it yes and no.   What a stupid thing to do.   You can't answer that that way and have it be valid.  But I gave you a hint and the results of your answer so you went with both so you tried to have it all ways.   Doesn't cut it.

mspart

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, mspart said:

You being willing to bet is not what your argument is.   You are saying here that his local PD has these things.   But then you said you don't know but would be willing to bet.    And you have no idea where he lives.   Too funny.

mspart

Where?

All I said is I think he'd be surprised. In other words, I *bet* he's wrong. 

You going to answer my question now? It's an anonymous forum. Why the hesitation?