What's stopping ND from bringing back wrestling?

[ZipsWrestling24]

Indiana has tons of talent and ND has a notoriously large athletic budget, not to mention a very wealthy alumni network. Never realized that the program got cut despite being privately endowed... AD shuffled the funds around to women's sports after the donor passed in '91. Imagine Mason Parris, Jesse Mendez, Christian Carroll, etc. staying home. Would probably be ACC champs/runners-up on a regular basis. Any other examples of major colleges shafting their wrestling programs like ND?

ANGRY ND WRESTLERS FEEL MAT WAS RIPPED FROM UNDER THEM – Chicago Tribune

[Winners Circle]

6 minutes ago, ZipsWrestling24 said:

Indiana has tons of talent and ND has a notoriously large athletic budget, not to mention a very wealthy alumni network. Never realized that the program got cut despite being privately endowed... AD shuffled the funds around to women's sports after the donor passed in '91. Imagine Mason Parris, Jesse Mendez, Christian Carroll, etc. staying home. Would probably be ACC champs/runners-up on a regular basis. Any other examples of major colleges shafting their wrestling programs like ND?

ANGRY ND WRESTLERS FEEL MAT WAS RIPPED FROM UNDER THEM – Chicago Tribune

NC State and VT would like a word...

[Smsu150]

1 hour ago, ZipsWrestling24 said:

Indiana has tons of talent and ND has a notoriously large athletic budget, not to mention a very wealthy alumni network. Never realized that the program got cut despite being privately endowed... AD shuffled the funds around to women's sports after the donor passed in '91. Imagine Mason Parris, Jesse Mendez, Christian Carroll, etc. staying home. Would probably be ACC champs/runners-up on a regular basis. Any other examples of major colleges shafting their wrestling programs like ND?

ANGRY ND WRESTLERS FEEL MAT WAS RIPPED FROM UNDER THEM – Chicago Tribune

Marquette was privately funded as well.  The ND situation had to do with NCAA violations that occurred with their wrestling program. The NCAA wanted to use this as an excuse to probe the whole athletic department, particularly one program, the school panicked and dropped wrestling to get the NCAA off their back.  Some one closer to the situation might know better than I, but the story was the schools convinced the widow of the man who had endowed the program to sign the money over to the university to be used as the university saw fit.  Pretty low down tactics. 

I was in college when this happened.  ND was in the West Region at the time. 

Edited May 9 by Smsu150

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

I grew up very close to ND. They are between 2 of the best clubs in indiana and centrally located between Michigan, Illinois(Chicago), and Ohio.

 

sounds like some scummy business from the AD with the endowment. They should bring it back and they would have insane success instantly. 

[nhs67]

Not really what you're saying as it is an entirely different Notre Dame, but Notre Dame is a badass D2 college out of Ohio as well...

[ZipsWrestling24]

36 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Not really what you're saying as it is an entirely different Notre Dame, but Notre Dame is a badass D2 college out of Ohio as well...

Had a few buddies wrestle there. There were rumblings that they would try to move up to D1 after the success they had. But after Anthony Ralph left for tOSU, they weren't quite as dominant.

[ZipsWrestling24]

1 hour ago, Smsu150 said:

Marquette was privately funded as well.  The ND situation had to do with NCAA violations that occurred with their wrestling program. The NCAA wanted to use this as an excuse to probe the whole athletic department, particularly one program, the school panicked and dropped wrestling to get the NCAA off their back.  Some one closer to the situation might know better than I, but the story was the schools convinced the widow of the man who had endowed the program to sign the money over to the university to be used as the university saw fit.  Pretty low down tactics. 

I was in college when this happened.  ND was in the West Region at the time. 

I hadn't been able to find any articles detailing that, but it makes sense. I figured something else had happened to cut the program, but still cruddy overall. 

Marquette would be another interesting one to see revived. Given the success of AWA, I gotta imagine they could land a few of their studs that wanna stay in state, just not for Bono lol. Fingers crossed more and more smaller schools like Little Rock and Morgan State return.

[Idaho]

Boise State President and AD wanted baseball.... dropped wrestling, added baseball and never competed in even one season of baseball.

The president retired, then very soon after became a board member and editorial staff  at the local newspaper, which is owns a lot of papers in Idaho. Guess what you never saw in the news after that? 

WHen the program was dropped, they send an assistant to the wrestling room with recruits on campus to give the news to Mendoza that the program was cut. This was shortly after they brought in a new staff as well. The AD and president refused to have any meeting with the wrestling staff even after they proposed to self fund after two years.  

[peanut]

3 hours ago, ZipsWrestling24 said:

Indiana has tons of talent and ND has a notoriously large athletic budget, not to mention a very wealthy alumni network. Never realized that the program got cut despite being privately endowed... AD shuffled the funds around to women's sports after the donor passed in '91. Imagine Mason Parris, Jesse Mendez, Christian Carroll, etc. staying home. Would probably be ACC champs/runners-up on a regular basis. Any other examples of major colleges shafting their wrestling programs like ND?

ANGRY ND WRESTLERS FEEL MAT WAS RIPPED FROM UNDER THEM – Chicago Tribune

Wrestling is a net expense; former wrestlers do not appear to be as attractive to schools as former lacrosse players (a sport that is expanding); wrestling makes compliance with Title 9 more difficult; and nobody at ND seems to want a wrestling team. Those are big barriers!

[ZipsWrestling24]

52 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Boise State President and AD wanted baseball.... dropped wrestling, added baseball and never competed in even one season of baseball.

The president retired, then very soon after became a board member and editorial staff  at the local newspaper, which is owns a lot of papers in Idaho. Guess what you never saw in the news after that? 

WHen the program was dropped, they send an assistant to the wrestling room with recruits on campus to give the news to Mendoza that the program was cut. This was shortly after they brought in a new staff as well. The AD and president refused to have any meeting with the wrestling staff even after they proposed to self fund after two years.  

The whole Boise State situation never made much sense to me. I'm in the process of writing up a journal on the success the non-Power 5 schools have had at NCAAs since 2000. Boise was a staple in the top 25 really until the program got cut, with a few top 10 finishes. Not allowing the program to continue even with self-funding is asinine. Hopefully the program makes a comeback sooner than later.

[ZipsWrestling24]

52 minutes ago, peanut said:

Wrestling is a net expense; former wrestlers do not appear to be as attractive to schools as former lacrosse players (a sport that is expanding); wrestling makes compliance with Title 9 more difficult; and nobody at ND seems to want a wrestling team. Those are big barriers!

The rise of women's wrestling has to be enticing to some degree, right? You'd think Title IX wouldn't really be an issue from that standpoint if the school got a large enough donation to fund both men's and women's programs, or even share an endowment.

[meZYNbrink]

Escobedo is doing great things for IU wrestling currently, but for Indiana to get to the point where we are keeping top talent, it seems that we have a pretty big uphill battle. Indiana produces really elite wrestlers who will likely continue to leave for blue blood programs until IU is at the point where they are perennially top 10. Kind of a chicken and egg situation and even then, it's tough to convince a Mendez, Lee, or Parris to stay instead of going to a PSU or the like. Purdue has some great things going but IU will always be the program that needs to get to contender level for in state kids to stay close to home.

[Voice of the Quakers]

3 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Not really what you're saying as it is an entirely different Notre Dame, but Notre Dame is a badass D2 college out of Ohio as well...

Not any more...

https://www.notredamecollege.edu/main-announcement-info/

[nhs67]

6 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Not any more...

https://www.notredamecollege.edu/main-announcement-info/

What. The. ***duck**.

[Idaho]

39 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Not any more...

https://www.notredamecollege.edu/main-announcement-info/

Wow...

[ZipsWrestling24]

1 hour ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Not any more...

https://www.notredamecollege.edu/main-announcement-info/

Wow. Not surprised, though. Cleveland State is teetering on the brink of collapse, as well. NDC has always been known as a "sports school" and not much for academics. 

[BobDole]

Maybe Notre Dame's football coach has a say since his sons are wrestlers and pretty good at it on top of that.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

1 minute ago, BobDole said:

Maybe Notre Dame's football coach has a say since his sons are wrestlers and pretty good at it on top of that.

I’ve thought this as well. His son works with missouri AA Daniel Lewis for wrestling, he has the money to fund a team himself lol. 

[ZipsWrestling24]

3 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Maybe Notre Dame's football coach has a say since his sons are wrestlers and pretty good at it on top of that.

 

1 minute ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

I’ve thought this as well. His son works with missouri AA Daniel Lewis for wrestling, he has the money to fund a team himself lol. 

 That would be great, actually. If anyone would be able to persuade the AD, it'd be Freeman.

[GopherINOHLand]

On 5/9/2024 at 3:15 PM, meZYNbrink said:

Escobedo is doing great things for IU wrestling currently, but for Indiana to get to the point where we are keeping top talent, it seems that we have a pretty big uphill battle. Indiana produces really elite wrestlers who will likely continue to leave for blue blood programs until IU is at the point where they are perennially top 10. Kind of a chicken and egg situation and even then, it's tough to convince a Mendez, Lee, or Parris to stay instead of going to a PSU or the like. Purdue has some great things going but IU will always be the program that needs to get to contender level for in state kids to stay close to home.

I can see him leave IU if Notre Dame revived its program. His coaching at Portage and Crown Point & Chicago schools being close would make them a contender right away. Da Region rats would be claiming South Bend as part of their area, though I'm not sure they'd want Penn & Mishawaka in their group. 

[ionel]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:14 AM, ZipsWrestling24 said:

Indiana has tons of talent and ND has a notoriously large athletic budget, not to mention a very wealthy alumni network. Never realized that the program got cut despite being privately endowed... AD shuffled the funds around to women's sports after the donor passed in '91. Imagine Mason Parris, Jesse Mendez, Christian Carroll, etc. staying home. Would probably be ACC champs/runners-up on a regular basis. Any other examples of major colleges shafting their wrestling programs like ND?

ANGRY ND WRESTLERS FEEL MAT WAS RIPPED FROM UNDER THEM – Chicago Tribune

Bigger question is why would they?  ND is a private correct so no instate tuition rate or advantage for Indiana kids.  Also NIL is the new deal, if you want an out of state kid just chip in more NIL$ to cover the difference.  ND has a great alumni base but why would they encourage any to contribute toward a wrestling collective versus football.  There is no fan base support.  Its stuck right in the middle of the b10 so no recruiting advantage.  Plus its a small school, who wants to go there, kind've feels like a juco except for that football thing.  There are so many better places to start a new program.  

[CoachDoss11]

I'd argue more for a school like say, Syracuse or Clemson to re-establish a program.  

[NM1965]

Screw ND. They had a miserable wrestling tradition and weren't really ever committed to it. JJ McGrew (I know him!) chose ND over Oklahoma State and OU. He was a 3 time state champ in Oklahoma and wrestled a couple years for ND, qualifying for NCAAs both times and doing nothing at the tournament. ND ended their program in time for him to transfer to OSU for his Jr year. JJ finished AA both his final years, beating a bad guy in black for the NCAA title his Sr year

I suppose ND bringing back wrestling would be good for it if ND actually showed commitment to it, which I think they would fail to do. 

[NM1965]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Bigger question is why would they?  ND is a private correct so no instate tuition rate or advantage for Indiana kids.  Also NIL is the new deal, if you want an out of state kid just chip in more NIL$ to cover the difference.  ND has a great alumni base but why would they encourage any to contribute toward a wrestling collective versus football.  There is no fan base support.  Its stuck right in the middle of the b10 so no recruiting advantage.  Plus its a small school, who wants to go there, kind've feels like a juco except for that football thing.  There are so many better places to start a new program.  

Maybe if they had "Takedown Jesus" instead of "Touchdown Jesus" they'd be taken more seriously as a wrestling school. 

[NM1965]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:15 PM, meZYNbrink said:

Escobedo is doing great things for IU wrestling currently, but for Indiana to get to the point where we are keeping top talent, it seems that we have a pretty big uphill battle. Indiana produces really elite wrestlers who will likely continue to leave for blue blood programs until IU is at the point where they are perennially top 10. Kind of a chicken and egg situation and even then, it's tough to convince a Mendez, Lee, or Parris to stay instead of going to a PSU or the like. Purdue has some great things going but IU will always be the program that needs to get to contender level for in state kids to stay close to home.

What great things has Escobedo done for IU wrestling? I'm just curious.