Poll: How do you feel about Greco?

[Voice of the Quakers]

4 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

You really should watch more greco if you're going to make such statements.  I watched a kid score from bottom, TWICE, in this weekend's (Olympic Trials) greco tournament.  Just one example.

So, you're saying they scored from par terre? My point exactly.

[Husker U]

Greco for me is very hard to watch.  I know it is a very technical type of wrestling, but to me there is very little action besides two guys trying to beat each other down to the ground.  Here is another take on it:  My wife was watching the trials with my son and I.  My son is a top level HS wrestler and has placed in the top three in FS the last two years in Fargo.  My wife loves to watch him wrestle, but since she attends almost all of the Folkstyle season, she tends to be working more and has not made it to Fargo or any of the Regional tournaments that we attend.  While watching Greco, she asks my son, "why don't you start specializing in Greco, since it seems like it would be easier to make the World and Olympic teams?"  Of course my son did not like that she was implying that it is easier and he took it to heart and thought she meant that he would never make a World or Olympic Team in FS.  My son's response, " Greco is stupid and why would I even want to wrestle it at that level when I think I can be the man in FS?"  She asked him a few other questions in which he did not reply much and it was obvious that he did not want anything to do with Greco.  He does wrestle Greco at most tournaments and he has done very well, but last year in Fargo, we let him only wrestle FS and that is what he wants to do from now on.  

[WrestlingRasta]

29 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

So, you're saying they scored from par terre? My point exactly.

You were clearly referring to the top position being the only way to score, and you know it.  

As I said, one example.  I could talk about the real sweet arm drag the Cuban hit in the world finals to beat Kaalap, or the arsenal that Makhmudov puts on display, all types of examples.  

Edited April 24 by WrestlingRasta

[WrestlingRasta]

2 hours ago, Paul158 said:

I think this is about preference. I prefer folkstyle wrestling over freestyle and greco. Just like I prefer College Football over Pro football. I prefer a well marbled steak cooked on a grill over a hamburger at McDonalds. It doesn't matter to me what your preferences are. You are a grown man you will have different preferences. 

I know, I was just pointing out some misperceptions.  

[Voice of the Quakers]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

You were clearly referring to the top position being the only way to score, and you know it.  

As I said, one example.  I could talk about the real sweet arm drag the Cuban hit in the world finals to beat Kaalap, or the arsenal that Makhmudov puts on display, all types of examples.  

And you referred to two instances where a wrestler scored from bottom out of how many matches. Now you reference an all time great here - great arm drag, dude - and one other wrestler there. So, who is exactly citing exceptions?

The reality is so much scoring in GR today is accomplished via penalty, which is a problem, and ground wrestling, which I am fine with, that it does not remotely resemble the sport I competed in during the 1980s and 1990s. (I know a fellow poster here has done the analysis - "real" scoring from the 2023 Worlds was, I believe, better than at the 2022 Worlds.)

While GR is more popular in Europe, the utter inscrutability of the sport to the general public has caught the IOC's eye. And, anyone who thinks the GR product at OTT will help grow the popularity of the style here is kidding themselves.

[WrestlingRasta]

1 minute ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

And you referred to two instances where a wrestler scored from bottom out of how many matches. Now you reference an all time great here - great arm drag, dude - and one other wrestler there. So, who is exactly citing exceptions?

The reality is so much scoring in GR today is accomplished via penalty, which is a problem, and ground wrestling, which I am fine with, that it does not remotely resemble the sport I competed in during the 1980s and 1990s. (I know a fellow poster here has done the analysis - "real" scoring from the 2023 Worlds was, I believe, better than at the 2022 Worlds.)

While GR is more popular in Europe, the utter inscrutability of the sport to the general public has caught the IOC's eye. And, anyone who thinks the GR product at OTT will help grow the popularity of the style here is kidding themselves.

I'm not citing exceptions.  You stated par terre was the only way to score in high level greco.  I wasn't pointing exceptions, I was pointing just a few recent examples of how you're statement is in fact incorrect.

[1032004]

4 hours ago, Husker U said:

Greco for me is very hard to watch.  I know it is a very technical type of wrestling, but to me there is very little action besides two guys trying to beat each other down to the ground.  Here is another take on it:  My wife was watching the trials with my son and I.  My son is a top level HS wrestler and has placed in the top three in FS the last two years in Fargo.  My wife loves to watch him wrestle, but since she attends almost all of the Folkstyle season, she tends to be working more and has not made it to Fargo or any of the Regional tournaments that we attend.  While watching Greco, she asks my son, "why don't you start specializing in Greco, since it seems like it would be easier to make the World and Olympic teams?"  Of course my son did not like that she was implying that it is easier and he took it to heart and thought she meant that he would never make a World or Olympic Team in FS.  My son's response, " Greco is stupid and why would I even want to wrestle it at that level when I think I can be the man in FS?"  She asked him a few other questions in which he did not reply much and it was obvious that he did not want anything to do with Greco.  He does wrestle Greco at most tournaments and he has done very well, but last year in Fargo, we let him only wrestle FS and that is what he wants to do from now on.  

@LJB would not like this post, lol.

Does your wife follow D1 to know the top guys?  Just curious what would make her say that doing well in Greco would be “easier”?

[BarSeries]

Olympics: have all 10 weights for MFS and WFS and drop greco. That's how I feel about GR.

[steamboat_charlie]

Bit of a chicken and egg scenario with Greco.

Most Americans don’t really care about it, and we’re also terrible at it. 

I’d be fine if I went the rest of my life never witnessing another Greco match. In fact, most of the Greco I’ve had to watch in recent years has been specifically against my will, being interspersed with content that I am actually interested in consuming. 

[wrestle87]

Just so we're clear, Greco doesn't HAVE to be boring...it is a stylistic choice that wrestlers make.  

I know it doesn't HAVE to be boring because I do everything that I can to make sure I watch every match that Jesse Porter and Kamal Bey wrestle.

Those dudes are must watch entertainment whether they win or lose EVERY time.

So...again...doesn't have to be boring, because those two are the most exciting wrestlers in ALL of USA wrestling, more than anybody in freestyle.

[Jim L]

My thought for "fixing" GR is to allow trips and foot sweeps etc. but continue to allow leg grabbing (any hand below the waist techniques) This opens up a big variety of techniques and also should cause more positioning/action leading to more traditional GR throws.

This wont happen because this is essentially Judo without a gi and the Olympic committee does not want different sports that are too similar.

It is a radical change to the style, but Judo made a similar radical change about 15 years ago where all leg grabbing techniques were banned. Any touches below the belt, at the time, became an immediate disqualification. The change seemed to be because ex-wrestlers (a Mongolian in particular) were winning gold medals with blast doubles and people did not like it. They thought it did not look like Judo even though those techniques have been part of Judo since the beginning. There was lots of complaining from traditionalists and ex-wrestlers (like me) who had their most effective techniques banned. All these years later, I think the controversy has mostly gone away and people mostly accept that is what competition Judo is. 

 

[alex1fly]

There should be a style that only allows lower-body takedowns... no tie-ups. We'll call it Ocerg

Kind of trolling, but kind of not

[MJD]

17 hours ago, BarSeries said:

Olympics: have all 10 weights for MFS and WFS and drop greco. That's how I feel about GR.

I agree. It's too expensive to keep something that not many people like. The last time I watched a GR match was Karelin vs Gardner -- 24 years ago.

[peanut]

Is Greco the only Olympic sport that has no women’s competition?

[Threadkilla]

Greco is great, just not in the US. In several countries Greco is the favorable style.  Look at the goons that wrestle Greco internationally.  countries like Hungary, Russia, Turkey, Romania, South Korea, Japan, Finland, Bulgaria, and Sweden have dominated the sport.   We have had 4 world medals in 10 years.  1 silver (Coon) and 3 Bronze 2 of which were won by Bizak and the other by Tracy Hancock.      

Not much emphasis is placed on Greco in the states because we don't have the experience that other countries do, Greco is an afterthought here.  We have great upper body guys here that would do great in Greco.  Dake immediately comes to mind, if he came from a Greco background he would be one of the best. 

The US needs to seek out the likes of Artur Aleksanian or some other studs and coaches to come to the US to show us how its done.  We have several Internatalional Freestyle studs living in the US like Belagozov and other but not many Greco guys that I know of.   

[wrestle87]

I think it would be way more entertaining if everyone bad to be good in both styles, and if they coin flipped the day of to decide if they would be wrestling freestyle or greco.

One of the big problems with greco is the most entertaining and/or most successful young greco guys wind up going freestyle bc folkstyle requires and rewards it more.

It is a must acknowledge, that folkstyle really limits greco’s development.

[WrestlingRasta]

30 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

I think it would be way more entertaining if everyone bad to be good in both styles, and if they coin flipped the day of to decide if they would be wrestling freestyle or greco.

One of the big problems with greco is the most entertaining and/or most successful young greco guys wind up going freestyle bc folkstyle requires and rewards it more.

It is a must acknowledge, that folkstyle really limits greco’s development.

And has been on a downslide since the day USAW decided to take an emphasis in folkstyle tournaments and series. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

5 hours ago, peanut said:

Is Greco the only Olympic sport that has no women’s competition?

The only one I can think of is synchronized swimming. Gymnastics also has pretty different, gender-specific events but men's and women's are sort of considered to be different sports. But yeah, not too many men-only or women's-only core sports out there.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

Just watched a bunch of U17 US Open Greco, and it was astonishing! 

ILLINOIS has dominated in Greco for years, as can be seen in the Fargo and National Duals record books and even on this year's Senior World Team, but other states are starting to pick it up, and there are some exciting kids in the pipeline. As a nation, we've sucked at the simple gut wrench even in domestic competition, but Wyatt Medlin, by himself, must have had about 20 in this tournament from start to match three of the best of three finals. 

And there were throwers! Really big stuff. I wish y'all coulda seen it. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

19 hours ago, peanut said:

Is Greco the only Olympic sport that has no women’s competition?

Dressage?

[Old Dirty]

On 4/26/2024 at 5:10 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Dressage?

On 4/26/2024 at 5:10 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Dressage?

 

Pommel Horse and Parallel Bars.

[Jim L]

5 hours ago, Old Dirty said:

Pommel Horse and Parallel Bars.

Yes. Women's and Men's gymnastics are much different sports even though they share the name.

FS and GR are closer to each other than gymnastics

[1032004]

 

[GrandOlm]

I don't think any of the guys left in the Olympics will do well.

Jacobson is US domestic level, in the modern US greco era. He is just part of the field, there to be a climb the ladder win for the medalists.

Rau is so basic. And he's old. I saw him talking about learning par terre defense, at an age when a lot of wrestlers retire. 97 kg has pretty stratified tiers. I think any of the tier 1 wrestlers should tech him and tier 2 types beat him comfortably. 

Coon has the luckiest silver medal of his generation, but he has been part time greco with his failed nfl stint. It matters less at 130 kg but still. He overwhelmed with his size and strength in that dream draw run, but most of those types of people have been weeded out at the olympics. I think Semenov destroys him again if they meet. He'd need a dream draw again, be at his best form, and to wrestle someone like Alin for bronze to get a medal. 

All three are low ceiling types (unlike past games with G'Angelo). It would be more exciting if there was a low floor high ceiling competitor. 

[GopherINOHLand]

Would it help if USAW just made everyone split time evenly between Folkstyle, Freestyle, and Greco-Roman? Heck even create what I call "Combined Styles" that would be a match that wrestles 3 periods of  each style. Just try and raise the bar of the 2 Olympic styles & folkstyle.