Burroughs vs. Dake

[Curt Foley]

I'm going with an inspired Burroughs to make the Olympic team.  

He is truly an exceptional athlete and his skills will be on display!

Edited April 11 by Curt Foley

[peanut]

JB is a legend, but I think age is too much for him to overcome at this point.

Of course, Dake's pretty old too. Nevertheless, he's the reigning silver medalist, and he gets a bye to the finals, so he's got to be the favorite.

But I wouldn't be shocked to see Nolf or KOT or Carr win it all.

[bnwtwg]

Imagine how Dake is going to feel if Burroughs has to wrestle the whole tournament, goes three matches, and wins it all. Does he finally admit that JB was better all those years?

[Truzzcat]

the match will likely come down too if Jordan has figured out the chest wrap position. I don't think hes going to be able to but if he does he can certainly win.

[Eagle26]

1 hour ago, peanut said:

JB is a legend, but I think age is too much for him to overcome at this point.

Of course, Dake's pretty old too. Nevertheless, he's the reigning silver medalist, and he gets a bye to the finals, so he's got to be the favorite.

But I wouldn't be shocked to see Nolf or KOT or Carr win it all.

I would be shocked if it’s anyone other than Dake, JB, or Nolf. I think Burroughs has a decent chance. Dake is a bad matchup for him (as is Marsteller) because he struggles with guys that just hold really good position. He’s still been one of the best wrestlers in the world every year since 2011, so he hasn’t lost as much as people make it seem… others just figured him out more. I’m sure he’s been working on that, so I’d give him about a 20-25% chance. Nolf at 5-10% and Dake around 70% chance. 

[wrestlingshoe]

I also think Dake has been figured out internationally. His performance at last year's worlds was much less dominant than in the past. His Dake bomb was less effective. Now that Burrows has taken the last year to focus solely on Dake it will be interesting.  He never had to figure Dake out because he always won before.  Now it's a different story. 

[Truzzcat]

8 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

I also think Dake has been figured out internationally. His performance at last year's worlds was much less dominant than in the past. His Dake bomb was less effective. Now that Burrows has taken the last year to focus solely on Dake it will be interesting.  He never had to figure Dake out because he always won before.  Now it's a different story. 

ben was saying that Keegan talked him through what to do to attack Dakes legs and then sidakov did exactly that. Id have to listen to it back but I believe it was a head inside single where you put the head under the ankle so that he cannot post off that foot to go chest wrap.

[bnwtwg]

2 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

ben was saying that Keegan talked him through what to do to attack Dakes legs and then sidakov did exactly that. Id have to listen to it back but I believe it was a head inside single where you put the head under the ankle so that he cannot post off that foot to go chest wrap.

KOT: why not just cradle him?

[peanut]

23 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I would be shocked if it’s anyone other than Dake, JB, or Nolf. I think Burroughs has a decent chance. Dake is a bad matchup for him (as is Marsteller) because he struggles with guys that just hold really good position. He’s still been one of the best wrestlers in the world every year since 2011, so he hasn’t lost as much as people make it seem… others just figured him out more. I’m sure he’s been working on that, so I’d give him about a 20-25% chance. Nolf at 5-10% and Dake around 70% chance. 

JB is 35, almost 36. The oldest freestyler I can recall winning a world title is Bonne at 34. JB’s just too old for the most elite levels of this sport. Even Dake is getting close to the end of his elite career.

[Curt Foley]

4 minutes ago, peanut said:

JB is 35, almost 36. The oldest freestyler I can recall winning a world title is Bonne at 34. JB’s just too old for the most elite levels of this sport. Even Dake is getting close to the end of his elite career.

Peanut:

You're probably right but I read a quote recently about how much JB has focused on this last run.  The need to re-dedicate to being hungry.  I'm going to stick with my pick.  Thankfully he's one of the best to have ever done it.

[peanut]

19 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

I also think Dake has been figured out internationally. His performance at last year's worlds was much less dominant than in the past. His Dake bomb was less effective. Now that Burrows has taken the last year to focus solely on Dake it will be interesting.  He never had to figure Dake out because he always won before.  Now it's a different story. 

Dake’s a legend and an incredible talent and far better than I could imagine being, but this notion that he’s been dominant on the world stage doesn’t tell the full story. What are his best wins at worlds or the Olympics? He beat Chamizo in 2020 (after getting teched) and Salkazanov and Shananau a few times. Who else?

[Truzzcat]

52 minutes ago, peanut said:

Dake’s a legend and an incredible talent and far better than I could imagine being, but this notion that he’s been dominant on the world stage doesn’t tell the full story. What are his best wins at worlds or the Olympics? He beat Chamizo in 2020 (after getting teched) and Salkazanov and Shananau a few times. Who else?

his win in 18 was his best performance imo but thats rather obvious he did not give up a point. Id say 2019 and 2021 were dominant as well only giving up 6 points in 19 and 4 in 21. His margin of victory dwindled quite a bit in 22 and then even more so in 23 as well as taking a loss. Im not gonna use a sidakov loss as a sign that someone is declining but perhaps the discrepancy in margin of victory could suggest that. So one could argue if you think 21 was close to KD's peak could he have fallen off enough and could JB still be at the same level with some new found motivation to potentially snag the series? More than likely I'm trying to convince myself of something that just won't happen, I honestly don't even know that JB's my pick to win the challenge tournament hes gotta beat a lot of bad bad dudes.

[CHROMEBIRD]

54 minutes ago, peanut said:

Dake’s a legend and an incredible talent and far better than I could imagine being, but this notion that he’s been dominant on the world stage doesn’t tell the full story. What are his best wins at worlds or the Olympics? He beat Chamizo in 2020 (after getting teched) and Salkazanov and Shananau a few times. Who else?

He beat Tsargush but that was ages ago and I think around the time he was about to retire, so I don't kno whow quality of a win that is. Dake also beat Hasanov and Gadzhi. 

Idk if he's been scouted and figured out or if he's just past his peak. Folks mentioned previously that he looks too hard for Dake bomb opportunities rather than wrestling smartly. It could be catching up with him.

[wrestlingshoe]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Folks mentioned previously that he looks too hard for Dake bomb opportunities rather than wrestling smartly. It could be catching up with him.

I've thought this for quite some time. I've also wondered how much better he would actually have been over his career if he was more offensive minded. Could he have been the undisputed best? When he attacked legs he was amazing (maybe his age reversal antics are backfiring and time has caught up with him). What if leg attacks were his go to?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

10 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

He beat Tsargush but that was ages ago and I think around the time he was about to retire, so I don't kno whow quality of a win that is. Dake also beat Hasanov and Gadzhi. 

Idk if he's been scouted and figured out or if he's just past his peak. Folks mentioned previously that he looks too hard for Dake bomb opportunities rather than wrestling smartly. It could be catching up with him.

Last Worlds, it looked like he thought the name of the sport was "chest-wrapping" and forgot about the whole "wrestling" thing.

[JimmyCinnabon]

10 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

He beat Tsargush but that was ages ago and I think around the time he was about to retire, so I don't kno whow quality of a win that is. Dake also beat Hasanov and Gadzhi. 

Idk if he's been scouted and figured out or if he's just past his peak. Folks mentioned previously that he looks too hard for Dake bomb opportunities rather than wrestling smartly. It could be catching up with him.

How can Dake be past his peak? Doesn't he claim to have the Benjamin Buttons disease? Maybe he's before his peak now?

[Scouts Honor]

if dake relies on his chest wrap.. .then he doesn't deserve the spot.

it means he didn't learn from his last time out.

[Luckysevens]

12 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

He beat Tsargush but that was ages ago and I think around the time he was about to retire, so I don't kno whow quality of a win that is. 

Hard to believe that was over a decade ago. 2013 may have been a down year for Tsargush but he did win world gold the following year. 

Edited April 12 by Luckysevens

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

if dake relies on his chest wrap.. .then he doesn't deserve the spot.

it means he didn't learn from his last time out.

"if multiple time world champ and most recent world silver medalist attempts go-to move then he doesn't deserve the spot"

lol ok. He didn't hit it last time. What's to say he doesn't again? If your kid doesn't finish a shot do you tell them to quit shooting?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, bnwtwg said:

"if multiple time world champ and most recent world silver medalist attempts go-to move then he doesn't deserve the spot"

lol ok. He didn't hit it last time. What's to say he doesn't again? If your kid doesn't finish a shot do you tell them to quit shooting?

I think the problem was that he overly relied on one thing, and probably not the best thing.

[Red95]

Tough crowd. The guy has medaled at every world championship and Olympics since 2018 with four golds, a silver, and a bronze. Good chance that Paris is his last rodeo (assuming he wins OTT). He may have lost a step or two but even so he’s still better than most of the world. He’ll be ready to go. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 minutes ago, Red95 said:

Tough crowd. The guy has medaled at every world championship and Olympics since 2018 with four golds, a silver, and a bronze. Good chance that Paris is his last rodeo (assuming he wins OTT). He may have lost a step or two but even so he’s still better than most of the world. He’ll be ready to go. 

What are your thoughts on Burroughs?

[TylerDurden]

Hot take sure to go wrong: JB doesn't make it to Dake. 

Father time is undefeated. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

Hot take sure to go wrong: JB doesn't make it to Dake. 

Father time is undefeated. 

Dake disagrees, but this "tough crowd" (reality) seems to differ. Oh well.

[Red95]

22 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

What are your thoughts on Burroughs?

Burroughs is on the Mt Rushmore of USA wrestling so it would be unwise to look past him. He absolutely could win OTT but he too has lost a step and has a few landmines on the path to the finals and many of them will be tougher than Marstellar was last year. But it’s going to be fun to watch!