What is going on in East Lansing?

[jchapman]

6 hours ago, NM1965 said:

How fancy does a wrestling room have to be, though? As long as it holds 3 or 4 full sized mats and can get super hot so guys sweat like pigs is the only requirement.  

Didn't Keck win a Natty wrestling in a warehouse this season?

[Dakota]

19 hours ago, YungBullFrog said:

I would say it is a coaching staff issue. The team has had consistent results over the past few years, and it is clear the team has plateau'd. Chandler is a step up from the Minkel era, but he has hit his ceiling. Sadly, East Lansing is where a lot of careers go to die historically, and I think the program needs a hard reset. Bring in a complete new staff, start building a new facility, and the program will head in the right direction. 

I think I could argue that the Minkel era was better, many more AA's. Yes, the last 5 years of Minkel was completely awful, but how many AA's does the new staff have?? 

The transfers are basically stating they don't have faith in this staff and why would any recruit believe in them. If they stay, next year will be completely awful, back to the last 5 years of Minkel era. 

[nhs67]

42 minutes ago, RandolphTJones said:

Reader to CMU perhaps. 

That would be ideal for Reader.  At this stage, not for CMU, if you take in to consideration the optics from Wiscy - right now.

[YungBullFrog]

39 minutes ago, Dakota said:

I think I could argue that the Minkel era was better, many more AA's. Yes, the last 5 years of Minkel was completely awful, but how many AA's does the new staff have?? 

The transfers are basically stating they don't have faith in this staff and why would any recruit believe in them. If they stay, next year will be completely awful, back to the last 5 years of Minkel era. 

I agree, overall Minkel was better. Guess i should've stated it more explicitly that I was referring to the end of Minkels tenure. I also agree that these transfers show no faith in the coaches. Hope a staff change is made soon.

[nhs67]

4 minutes ago, YungBullFrog said:

I agree, overall Minkel was better. Guess i should've stated it more explicitly that I was referring to the end of Minkels tenure. I also agree that these transfers show no faith in the coaches. Hope a staff change is made soon.

With all the complications MSU is getting in the other sports, specifically the revenue ones, you aren't going to see it unless Chandler and Co do something dramatic and stupid.

There is no reason to.  There is no urge from administration to be in the Top Tier or Two... hell even the third tier.

[YungBullFrog]

17 hours ago, nhs67 said:

You understand their facilities dictate that they can likely only put the flames out.  There is no fixing the dumpster fire without improving the room they actually train in.

No support from the athletic department doesn't help, and I agree the facilities need a massive upgrade. But the coaching staff needs to play the cards they were dealt. Many examples of coaches succeeding at programs with little support from the athletic department. MSU is not the only program in the country struggling with athletic department support and facilities. MSU needs to take a page out of Rob Koll's playbook and get to fundraising. The potential in East Lansing is there to be a top notch program, and it is pretty clear that is not the current direction of the program.

[YungBullFrog]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

With all the complications MSU is getting in the other sports, specifically the revenue ones, you aren't going to see it unless Chandler and Co do something dramatic and stupid.

There is no reason to.  There is no urge from administration to be in the Top Tier or Two... hell even the third tier.

You are probably right sadly. Seems like everyone involved is content with where they are. Maybe Chandler retires soon? 

[Dakota]

2 minutes ago, YungBullFrog said:

You are probably right sadly. Seems like everyone involved is content with where they are. Maybe Chandler retires soon? 

Goodness, how many years did we say that about Minkel! They haven't had an All-American in what 6 years??? They compete against Wisconsin, NW, Ind, Purdue, Maryland, and ILL yet they have had many more AA's in that time. Also don't see any AA's for MSU for the forseeable future.

[RandolphTJones]

25 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

That would be ideal for Reader.  At this stage, not for CMU, if you take in to consideration the optics from Wiscy - right now.

If you were a CMU fan, who would you want that wouldn't be a pipedream? 

[nhs67]

11 minutes ago, YungBullFrog said:

You are probably right sadly. Seems like everyone involved is content with where they are. Maybe Chandler retires soon? 

He isn't even 50 yet.  I doubt it.

5 minutes ago, RandolphTJones said:

If you were a CMU fan, who would you want that wouldn't be a pipedream? 

I am a CMU fan.  I would much prefer Metcalf at this stage in their careers... but fortunately for Metcalf he is probably looking a B1G job next, if he so chooses it.

[Caveira]

15 hours ago, Show_Me said:

How many of these “grad transfers” are actually getting their advanced degrees from the University’s they transfer to ?  I am genuinely curious.  Wrestleknownothing ?  Anybody have data on this ?

Or is it in reality just a “reason” that appeases to the masses to wrestle at a higher profile program that didn’t recruit said wrestler or invest in them previously.

I mean.  Where would one get that data from.   Do you really think these athletes study well enough in undergrad….. apply for a graduate degree…. Take the gre / gmat / lsat / or mcat.   Attend classes etc and do all that work.  Just for one more ncaa tournament?   It’s not like PE majors goofing off man.   Especially at high end schools like u of m.   
 

My assumption is closer to all of them vs none of them as an extreme.   

[YungBullFrog]

43 minutes ago, Dakota said:

Goodness, how many years did we say that about Minkel! They haven't had an All-American in what 6 years??? They compete against Wisconsin, NW, Ind, Purdue, Maryland, and ILL yet they have had many more AA's in that time. Also don't see any AA's for MSU for the forseeable future.

I don't see a name on the roster with AA potential sadly. Maybe an incoming recruit? But its not like MSU has a great track record of developing and improving their guys. If anything, they have a correlation of guys never getting better.

[Dakota]

14 minutes ago, YungBullFrog said:

I don't see a name on the roster with AA potential sadly. Maybe an incoming recruit? But its not like MSU has a great track record of developing and improving their guys. If anything, they have a correlation of guys never getting better.

Sadly, I only see one commitment for MSU and that kid got throw off his high school team. 

[YungBullFrog]

3 minutes ago, Dakota said:

Sadly, I only see one commitment for MSU and that kid got throw off his high school team. 

Are you referring to Thomas (Pontiac, MI)? If so, do you have any insight to why he was kicked off his high school team?

 

[Dakota]

17 minutes ago, YungBullFrog said:

Are you referring to Thomas (Pontiac, MI)? If so, do you have any insight to why he was kicked off his high school team?

 

Yes, not a clue, but not sure how you get thrown off that team. Couldn't be good. Not a good sign, leaves DCC and didn't finish his high school career at Pontiac.

[Lurk_Nowitzki]

23 minutes ago, YungBullFrog said:

Are you referring to Thomas (Pontiac, MI)? If so, do you have any insight to why he was kicked off his high school team?

 

I know a lot of people close to the DCC program and was told his dad pulled him out of private school over a disagreement with the coaches. Crazy dad, but never heard about any issues with the kid. 

Edited April 5 by Lurk_Nowitzki

[Lurk_Nowitzki]

Just now, Dakota said:

Yes, not a clue, but not sure how you get thrown off that team. Couldn't be good. Not a good sign, leaves DCC and didn't finish his high school career at Pontiac.

Just cause a kid leaves a private school doesn’t automatically mean he was kicked off the team lol. 

[Dakota]

6 minutes ago, Lurk_Nowitzki said:

Just cause a kid leaves a private school doesn’t automatically mean he was kicked off the team lol. 

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that he was kicked out of DCC. I just wanted to add some more contexts that he did leave there for whatever reason.

[NM1965]

15 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I mean, the end result doesn't show so much as it was basically an improvement one one spot for Oly (two guys left the weight class so 8-2=6 and he placed 5th) but he was getting handled by Hamiti before the transfer.  Afterwards he won every time.

Oly improved drastically.  It should be assumed that Hamiti will as well.  Especially with their coaching staff and training situations they have going on there.  (Plott >>>>>>>>>> Maylor).

I hope you are right. 

[1032004]

21 hours ago, Caveira said:

I mean.  Where would one get that data from.   Do you really think these athletes study well enough in undergrad….. apply for a graduate degree…. Take the gre / gmat / lsat / or mcat.   Attend classes etc and do all that work.  Just for one more ncaa tournament?   It’s not like PE majors goofing off man.   Especially at high end schools like u of m.   
 

My assumption is closer to all of them vs none of them as an extreme.   

I got yelled at when I talked about this in a different thread, but I think it’s a fair question to ask.  Again I’m on record as saying guys being able to wrestle and get paid or at least get some of their schooling paid for while they get a graduate degree is one good thing about the free Covid year.

But I’ve looked around and it seems a decent amount of the higher profile grad transfers are getting “certificates” and/or are enrolled in masters programs completely unrelated to their undergrad.  Of course they all already have undergrad degrees from big name schools which is more than most can say, and several already have graduate degrees which is more than even more people can say, and certificate programs can still be beneficial for their resumes, but I would bet there are quite a few of these guys that don’t actually finish the program they’re in.  Of course I don’t blame them if they were getting paid to do it.

For example, one of the most prominent recent transfers, who even spent 2 years at his second school, is listed on the roster as a “non-degree student.”

At “Transfer U,” of their 5 notable transfers this season, they were only enrolled in 2 different programs, one of them being a certificate and the other being a very different field than most of their undergraduate degrees (although as mentioned some of them did already have graduate degrees from their prior school, and yes it is possible they may actually be more interested in this field than their undergrad major).  Interestingly, this particular graduate program probably would have been helpful for the “non-degree student” mentioned earlier.

 

Edited April 6 by 1032004

[Dogbone]

As mentioned, MSU has a much better history than what they are producing.  But Minkel was so bad at the end that is looks like Chandler has made improvements. (It helps to follow a coach who got negative points at NCAAs). 

It just seems like apathy has sent in at every level.   Chandler was on staff at the end, how much has really changed? 

Even the wrestling room condition just seems like an excuse.  Every coach talks about being a fundraiser as part of their job.  If it sucks, change it.  It's clear the Administration doesn't care about the results.  The coaches/boosters/alumni seemed to have accepted it as well.   If only the administration would give them a good wrestling room, things would be different...

[TexRef]

21 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

As mentioned, MSU has a much better history than what they are producing.  But Minkel was so bad at the end that is looks like Chandler has made improvements. (It helps to follow a coach who got negative points at NCAAs). 

It just seems like apathy has sent in at every level.   Chandler was on staff at the end, how much has really changed? 

Even the wrestling room condition just seems like an excuse.  Every coach talks about being a fundraiser as part of their job.  If it sucks, change it.  It's clear the Administration doesn't care about the results.  The coaches/boosters/alumni seemed to have accepted it as well.   If only the administration would give them a good wrestling room, things would be different...

Isn't this the same thing that the Illinois fans have been complaining about for years? 

I thought having the elevated mat for duals was a great idea, many kudos to Minkel for coming up with that. 

[WrestlingRash]

On 4/4/2024 at 2:35 PM, nhs67 said:

You understand their facilities dictate that they can likely only put the flames out.  There is no fixing the dumpster fire without improving the room they actually train in.

They've had elite guys, just not more than 1 or 2 at a time. The fact that they have had people like Franklin Gomez and the Simmons brothers find success there proves that it is possible. Roger Chandler's bio says he is entering his 27th season with Michigan State. I think its time for some new blood. The facility excuse is the mantra of mediocrity. 

[nhs67]

46 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

They've had elite guys, just not more than 1 or 2 at a time. The fact that they have had people like Franklin Gomez and the Simmons brothers find success there proves that it is possible. Roger Chandler's bio says he is entering his 27th season with Michigan State. I think its time for some new blood. The facility excuse is the mantra of mediocrity. 

You understand the Simmons bros and Gomez were there 20 years ago now, right?

Having the same room, just older and more worn, while pulling in B1G moneys?

That is horrible conditions.

[HungusMungus]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:45 AM, jchapman said:

Didn't Keck win a Natty wrestling in a warehouse this season?

Based on pictures that warehouse is better than the garbage room in the bowels of Camp Randall 

I have heard a new room in planned in the new football practice facility, but no one can confirm that.