Starocci just Andonian'd his knee

[JuanMogen]

Come on now. Maybe he won't win NCAAs, and we get him back next year. Listen, hoping Starocci is fine, but it is important as a fan that we act like sociopaths and start planning for the team. Can they toss in BearClaw?

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Not watching but that sounds terrible. PSU is going to win even if they throw me in at 174

[gromit]

Should’ve taken Alex Clemsen’s advice 

Got into that awkward scramble situation to try to go for the fall, after he already had the TF match ending NF swipes. That said, hopefully we see him back for the postseason.

Edited February 25 by gromit

[JuanMogen]

1 minute ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Not watching but that sounds terrible. PSU is going to win even if they throw me in at 174

Not if they threw me in. I'm not just losing matches for them, I'm getting team points taken away left and right. I'm a biter, but I'm not getting DQ'd over that until I really make a scene.

[scribers]

He’s downstairs drilling right now 

[CHROMEBIRD]

I did't see the dual but I'm pretty sure it's all Carl's fault for not letting Shunk wrestle

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

I’m sorry, what happened?

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

Found it: 

 

Apparently he was helped off the mat, this video doesn’t show it. I hate penn state more than anyone but hopefully this just a tweak.  

 

[gromit]

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I hope he is fine, and I'm sure he will be, but PSU may want to evaluate their 1950s training methods after recent issues with Howard, Nagao, SVN, and now Stall Rocky. Almost half the lineup, not to mention "no-knees" Kerk.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Same knee as last year. Didn't he have surgery on it during the offseason?

[wrestle87]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I hope he is fine, and I'm sure he will be, but PSU may want to evaluate their 1950s training methods after recent issues with Howard, Nagao, SVN, and now Stall Rocky. Almost half the lineup, not to mention "no-knees" Kerk.

I was just talking with my brother(a non-wrestler) about this while watching Iowa Okie State.  He hadn't watched any wrestling in a few years.  Two things have changed in the past decade that have made wrestling far more entertaining, but have done so at the cost of many many knees.

Collective skill in leg scrambles and confidence in leg scramble positions has gone up in the past decade, leg scramble fluency is a fundamental requirement for walking into a college room.  It is as much a part of defense AND offense as head hands defense and reshots used to be.  

Concurrent with this evolution, being able to do the splits, front and side has become a prerequisite as well.  Wrestlers are pushing their knees and legs to positions and situations that they really aren't meant to go.  If you look on most high level teams, half the guys are wearing a knee sleeve or two, or a big knee brace and a knee pad somehow.  I can't think of a top team that doesn't have guys sporting fat wraps, braces, or knee sleeves by March.  

Leg scrambles directly resemble what jiu jitsu, especially no-gi, refers to as leg entanglements, and they are a direct route to some of the most catastrophic submission holds in jiu jitsu.  I'm not surprised it happened, but goodness, please tell your wrestlers not to rely on this sort of scrambling for too long unless they have the world's strongest hamstrings (Hamstrings protect the ACL).  

[AnklePicker]

10 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

I was just talking with my brother(a non-wrestler) about this while watching Iowa Okie State.  He hadn't watched any wrestling in a few years.  Two things have changed in the past decade that have made wrestling far more entertaining, but have done so at the cost of many many knees.

Collective skill in leg scrambles and confidence in leg scramble positions has gone up in the past decade, leg scramble fluency is a fundamental requirement for walking into a college room.  It is as much a part of defense AND offense as head hands defense and reshots used to be.  

Concurrent with this evolution, being able to do the splits, front and side has become a prerequisite as well.  Wrestlers are pushing their knees and legs to positions and situations that they really aren't meant to go.  If you look on most high level teams, half the guys are wearing a knee sleeve or two, or a big knee brace and a knee pad somehow.  I can't think of a top team that doesn't have guys sporting fat wraps, braces, or knee sleeves by March.  

Leg scrambles directly resemble what jiu jitsu, especially no-gi, refers to as leg entanglements, and they are a direct route to some of the most catastrophic submission holds in jiu jitsu.  I'm not surprised it happened, but goodness, please tell your wrestlers not to rely on this sort of scrambling for too long unless they have the world's strongest hamstrings (Hamstrings protect the ACL).  

On a recent FRL Ben Askren talks about having to adapt his funky style a bit because he kept hurting his knees. What’s interesting though is that knee injuries have seem to go up across all sports not just wrestling. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, AnklePicker said:

On a recent FRL Ben Askren talks about having to adapt his funky style a bit because he kept hurting his knees. What’s interesting though is that knee injuries have seem to go up across all sports not just wrestling. 

Also mentioned (years ago) that he stopped doing leg passes in MMA so he didn't get caught in a leg submission during the entanglement.

Just this week, he argued that PD should not be a thing in college wrestling.  This is EXACTLY why PD should be a thing.  Dangerous positions, that while not "illegal" are often unintentional and can result in injury.  Not every position can be covered by the rule book!

Meanwhile, last week, Ben (whom I am a fan of) was still under the impression that a toe hold was illegal (but it hasn't been for year.)

[wrestle87]

1 hour ago, AnklePicker said:

On a recent FRL Ben Askren talks about having to adapt his funky style a bit because he kept hurting his knees. What’s interesting though is that knee injuries have seem to go up across all sports not just wrestling. 

That's a condition of the human body no doubt, the ACL is the anatomical weak point when it comes to lateral force delivery up and down the leg.  Prior to leg scrambling, it used to be far more common in field sports, especially among female athletes because of the relatively more acute Q angle at the knee.  

Less than 20 years ago, shoulders used to be the most common injury(purely anecdotal from ~14 years from the late 90's to early 2010's).  The evolution of scrambling has made knee injuries the #1 injury.  They are a vast second place to knees now.  

[CHROMEBIRD]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

Less than 20 years ago, shoulders used to be the most common injury(purely anecdotal from ~14 years from the late 90's to early 2010's).  The evolution of scrambling has made knee injuries the #1 injury.  They are a vast second place to knees now.  

I would agree with that. Seems like there aren't as many shoulder injuries going around these days compared with knees. Your brother has a good eye for noticing the spaghetti wrestling. A student commenter on a broadcast made  a passing comment that wrestling today can look cartoonish. You see guys literally twisted together like pretzels, each one contortedly grabbing the other's far ankle. It probably seems goofy to people who don't follow the sport.

[scribers]

2 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

On a recent FRL Ben Askren talks about having to adapt his funky style a bit because he kept hurting his knees. What’s interesting though is that knee injuries have seem to go up across all sports not just wrestling. 

Opposing strength increasing. Soft tissues remain the same as before 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Just this week, he argued that PD should not be a thing in college wrestling.  This is EXACTLY why PD should be a thing.  Dangerous positions, that while not "illegal" are often unintentional and can result in injury.  Not every position can be covered by the rule book!

This is exactly what I thought of after seeing this clip.   If the ref calls PD a second earlier here, this may not have happened.  But if he did you’d have had people complaining that he shouldn’t have stopped it.

Edit:  I do wonder if Askren would put this in the category of “he did this to himself” though.  He kinda did, by stepping over then turning back, but it seemed like it was the opponent getting to his stomach (which obviously is what he should have been trying to do), that caused the injury.

Edited February 26 by 1032004

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

This is exactly what I thought of after seeing this clip.   If the ref calls PD a second earlier here, this may not have happened.  But if he did you’d have had people complaining that he shouldn’t have stopped it.

Edit:  I do wonder if Askren would put this in the category of “he did this to himself” though.  He kinda did, by stepping over then turning back, but it seemed like it was the opponent getting to his stomach (which obviously is what he should have been trying to do), that caused the injury.

This one happened so fast, though, I don't know how anybody could be quick enough to stop it. On top of that, it seemed like Starocci initiated the move. Ref's gonna pay more attention when the other guy is twisting the leg. 

The good news is that surgery has come a long way. The ILLINI 197 pounder, Isiah Pettigrew, had surgery and was back within three to four weeks! First match back was a dud, second one was winner. Full gas tank, shooting takedowns in the third to earn a major.

I can hardly comprehend kids coming back so quickly, but it's possible. Coach Poeta said that they have ways to keep folks with knee and ankle injuries in cardiovascular shape. I think it involves an Iron Maiden and an ostrich feather. Don't quote me on that. 

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

This one happened so fast, though, I don't know how anybody could be quick enough to stop it. On top of that, it seemed like Starocci initiated the move. Ref's gonna pay more attention when the other guy is twisting the leg. 

The good news is that surgery has come a long way. The ILLINI 197 pounder, Isiah Pettigrew, had surgery and was back within three to four weeks! First match back was a dud, second one was winner. Full gas tank, shooting takedowns in the third to earn a major.

I can hardly comprehend kids coming back so quickly, but it's possible. Coach Poeta said that they have ways to keep folks with knee and ankle injuries in cardiovascular shape. I think it involves an Iron Maiden and an ostrich feather. Don't quote me on that. 

Yeah watching that a few times, Starocci definitely did that to himself

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

I think it involves an Iron Maiden and an ostrich feather. Don't quote me on that. 

[Fred]

He finished the match, right? Can’t be all that serious 

[gromit]

9 minutes ago, Fred said:

He finished the match, right? Can’t be all that serious 

The ref was holding the tech fall near fall points when the injury occurred, so yes, "he finished the match".

Edited February 26 by gromit

[Caveira]

He had the tech already…… was trying for the pin.  Once ref blew whistle match was over.  He had to be helped off mat and appeared to not be able to put weight on it.  

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Fred said:

He finished the match, right? Can’t be all that serious 

Depends, you can finish after ACL injury.   You won't be back from acl surgery in 4 weeks.  However you don't have to have surgery to wrestle.