NIL and PED’s

[wrestle87]

I haven’t heard anyone mention this, but I have to imagine that it will lead to a significant increase in the amount of sports-focused chemistry at the now NCAA and now high-school level.  

Dave Tate of former westside and now EliteFTS fame has some really good discussions about the practical use cases and the reality of “chemistry” being a useful switch that will only raise you a certain amount.  Considering that being a high school stud now gets you PAID, has High School now become what college used to be, and youth levels what high school used to be?

[ScarletKnight]

7 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

I haven’t heard anyone mention this, but I have to imagine that it will lead to a significant increase in the amount of sports-focused chemistry at the now NCAA and now high-school level.  

Dave Tate of former westside and now EliteFTS fame has some really good discussions about the practical use cases and the reality of “chemistry” being a useful switch that will only raise you a certain amount.  Considering that being a high school stud now gets you PAID, has High School now become what college used to be, and youth levels what high school used to be?

Do u have a link.  

 

I've seen a lot of college kids get way more jacked up in college. Kind of like the David Taylor transformation after college 

[Daddy Dave]

"Considering that being a high school stud now gets you PAID, has High School now become what college used to be, and youth levels what high school used to be?"

HS has actually been that way for a while. The use of Synthetic Growth Hormone is the not so new choice for parents looking for that edge for their lil champions. You can see it with some kids who look as though they had the dwarf characteristics and all of a sudden their light heavies-they have gas tanks forever, never get injured...They are healing before they leave the practice room and the amount of confidence that would give someone has a tremendous affect on their performance. People talk and birds of a feather flock together. Our Dr didn't name names but told me he was approached by several wrestling parents begging for the scrip-after sucking weight and starving them. The only way to know for sure is to test, and the NCAA is way behind...or probably just doesn't care.   Sad though, cause many of these guys wouldn't be near the top without cheating. 

 

 

[wrestle87]

4 hours ago, ScarletKnight said:

Do u have a link.  

There are many which are really interesting, matter of fact, and informative from Dave.  This is the one I always think of first though.

 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

10 hours ago, ScarletKnight said:

Do u have a link.  

 

I've seen a lot of college kids get way more jacked up in college. Kind of like the David Taylor transformation after college 

Are you insinuating that DT has taken steroids? I could entertain the idea….

[PortaJohn]

4 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

Are you insinuating that DT has taken steroids? I could entertain the idea….

DT doesn't have a steroid body

[Le duke]

DT doesn't have a steroid body

He looks like a guy who stopped starving himself.


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[wrestlingshoe]

6 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

Are you insinuating that DT has taken steroids? I could entertain the idea….

He looks like he did what I wish I did in college. Stop cutting weight keep lifting and wrestle to my potential. But that's not what we did in the 80s and early 90s. He is the prototype of what American wrestlers should be. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

"steroid body"

[ScarletKnight]

[Le duke]

Do you have the same body now, that you had at 21?


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[Gus]

3 hours ago, Le duke said:

 

Do you have the same body now, that you had at 21?


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Pretty much the same.. except now it hurts if I look the wrong way too fast

[GreatWhiteNorth]

4 hours ago, ScarletKnight said:

Nicely done by ScarletKnight. 

Folks may quibble, but the illustration is so awfully hard to disagree with.

This man is incredibly talented, he's a stud, and he is - without any doubt - enhanced by the use of supplements.

Which supplements exactly? Don't know - don't care, other than they are the ones that obviously worked for him.

Super high-level athletes do this the world over, in basically all of sports competition.

Like it or not, that's where we are.

And, like it or not, its where we need to be if we expect to compete for titles.

 

 

[jchapman]

Just in case you guys are being serious:  

190 lbs at 6’0” is not indicative of PED use.  The average shortstop in MLB in 2023 was 6’0.5” 190.2 lbs

Also, using a photo of a teenage Taylor starving himself to weigh 157 lbs is just plain foolish.

Edited December 20, 2023 by jchapman

[Mr. PeanutButter]

2 hours ago, jchapman said:

Just in case you guys are being serious:  

190 lbs at 6’0” is not indicative of PED use.  The average shortstop in MLB in 2023 was 6’0.5” 190.2 lbs

Also, using a photo of a teenage Taylor starving himself to weigh 157 lbs is just plain foolish.

I'm not insinuating ped use, but I'm certain I read an interview with David where he said he walks around at "over 200lbs"

[ScarletKnight]

Sounds like some people think PED use is incredibly rare and how someone looks or transforms is not at all indicator?   

What's the assumption, it's not used for sports. Or just not used by US wrestlers? 

[1032004]

6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Nicely done by ScarletKnight. 

Folks may quibble, but the illustration is so awfully hard to disagree with.

This man is incredibly talented, he's a stud, and he is - without any doubt - enhanced by the use of supplements.

Which supplements exactly? Don't know - don't care, other than they are the ones that obviously worked for him.

Super high-level athletes do this the world over, in basically all of sports competition.

Like it or not, that's where we are.

And, like it or not, its where we need to be if we expect to compete for titles.

 

 

Guys don’t need to take banned substances to compete for world titles.

I have no idea if Taylor did, I’d guess not.

[jchapman]

2 hours ago, ScarletKnight said:

Sounds like some people think PED use is incredibly rare and how someone looks or transforms is not at all indicator?   

What's the assumption, it's not used for sports. Or just not used by US wrestlers? 

I am saying that those two hand picked pictures are not an indication of PED use, because I know the circumstances of each photo and the time period between them.

[Dark Energy]

Back to original point … sadly, I think the answer is yes, NIL will drive PED use in HS and college.  And also sadly, I bet there will be parents and other adults that are ok with it and facilitate it.  

[1032004]

3 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Back to original point … sadly, I think the answer is yes, NIL will drive PED use in HS and college.  And also sadly, I bet there will be parents and other adults that are ok with it and facilitate it.  

High school maybe. Isn’t there a decent amount of testing in college though?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

High school maybe. Isn’t there a decent amount of testing in college though?

I question the legitimacy of these tests, what they test for, and how accurate they are, and I have heard NCAA champs/Olympians also question them.

[Le duke]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I question the legitimacy of these tests, what they test for, and how accurate they are, and I have heard NCAA champs/Olympians also question them.

Based on what, exactly? What personal knowledge of anti-doping science do you have that leads you to question the legitimacy or accuracy of testing performed on NCAA athletes?

 

[ScarletKnight]

5 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Based on what, exactly? What personal knowledge of anti-doping science do you have that leads you to question the legitimacy or accuracy of testing performed on NCAA athletes?

 

how many doping tests did Lance Armstrong pass?  And he was targeted.  

The UFC tests, but then you will see a fighter say 90% of people are on something banned.  

 

I also know a lot of kid wrestlers that were prescribed HGH and some that were prescribed testosterone to go along with it.  

HGH among kid wrestlers is incredibly common.  

 

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Based on what, exactly? What personal knowledge of anti-doping science do you have that leads you to question the legitimacy or accuracy of testing performed on NCAA athletes?

 

Well, I know someone who doped and was really worried about his results, took 2nd in nationals, urinated in a cup... and never heard about it again.

Is that good enough for you? 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight said:

how many doping tests did Lance Armstrong pass?  And he was targeted.  

The UFC tests, but then you will see a fighter say 90% of people are on something banned.  

 

I also know a lot of kid wrestlers that were prescribed HGH and some that were prescribed testosterone to go along with it.  

HGH among kid wrestlers is incredibly common.  

 

 

I had at least three athletes of shorter stature that were legally prescribed hGH when I was a high school coach at a very ritzy private school.  These are the kids that I am aware of.  I'm not even counting this as doping.