The Iowa Grinders, not a good look at all

[scourge165]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:19 PM, Le duke said:

The youngest is a senior in high school who would be curb stomped by the top 10 guys at 165.


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The youngest just wrestled a PSU recruit and beat him on a TB, a kid who is blocked by about 4 guys in the PSU room(if he were in College as Angelo is in this hypothetical). So...there are a few problems there.

Edited December 10, 2023 by scourge165

[wrestle87]

7 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

The youngest just wrestled a PSU recruit and beat him on a TB, a kid who is blocked by about 4 guys in the PSU room(if he were in College as Angelo is in this hypothetical). So...there are a few problems there.

While watching this match the whole time I was thinking “dang, I can’t wait to see this match in a year or two”

[1032004]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:19 PM, Le duke said:

The youngest is a senior in high school who would be curb stomped by the top 10 guys at 165.


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Didn’t Sealey give Marinelli a close match?  Not sure if Angelo beats any of the top 10 at 165, but “curb stomped” seems like a stretch 

[hawkguy]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:19 PM, Le duke said:

The youngest is a senior in high school who would be curb stomped by the top 10 guys at 165.


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I personally think he has a 50/50 chance at beating heller or thompson

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Very true. And Iowa was likely getting a higher average tier of recruit.  No Penn State to compete with.

Coaching trees have grown, and wrestling has largely moved on and disproven the Iowa grind style in favor of “hey let’s actually respect our bodies and our minds and see what that does” approach.  

Twin mini-gables and Mr J Smith are so dyed-in-the-wool blood sweat and tears coaches they squeeze their athletes too hard, or just don’t know another way.

There’s an interview with either John or one of the brands about a time when one of the brands walked up to John and asked when they can expect to finally stop getting fired up and not want to go fight the world while their wrestlers are competing.  The answer from John was “it never stops.”

Then…a more mature well-rounded adult  devised a far more comprehensive coaching persona, style, and culture, and left those programs in the dust.

Two of these rooms coach based in anger and discipline, one coaches based on gratitude, perspective, and creativity.

The sport has moved on in a big way and its a great thing.  

Yes, Cael looked extremely grateful when he threw a chair at an official.

[wrestle87]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yes, Cael looked extremely grateful when he threw a chair at an official.

You’re not wrong, but think about how much it says that Cael can go full Bob Knight and still not be close to being in the same league as J Smith and the Brands Bros in terms of uncontrollable competitive rage.  

I think a better barometer is to look at how wrestlers behave who are part of the program, and how grads of the program behave and comport themselves.  I give T&T a lot of credit for improving the lives of some young men who really need it, but the average Iowa guy looks worn out and tired of the sport.  The average cowboy looks like they are ready to transfer or drop out, hopefully C Scott will make it a fun room again.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 12/9/2023 at 10:12 PM, Le duke said:

 

Where have I said MM is a contender?
I think his ceiling is 3rd this year. I’ve been pretty clear about that. 165 is insanely deep yet again. I think Mesenbrink will win multiple titles, yes, but not this year.

And, guess what: Haines likely beat MM for the 157lb spot. They both certified below 165lbs, and Haines is the 157lb starter. Cael doesn’t play favorites.

Please quote me on the “national team in high school” thing.


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Back to this: I would consider 3rd place a contender.  Furthermore, I can certainly see MM beating Carr if he sees Carr in the semis.  

1.  MM has similar international accolades

2.  MM has better practice partners

3.  MM has Cael

4.  MM can learn from his bff KOT on what to expect from Carr

Carr is the favorite, but I am not the least bit surprised if MM pulls it off.

[1032004]

HR unsurprisingly is coming around on AJ joining the team (although not all of them).  I would be curious if some of the same people had different opinions of him joining the Hawks when the charges were first announced

[AgaveMaria]

Will say I have watches some more duals and some of the Iowa guys are looking better. Real Woods in particular seems to have the fire instad of phoning it in. Maybe it is the level of the competition? Don't know.

I do know that unless Tom & Co does something different from "This is how Gable Did It" they are out of the running for titles most of the time. They wrestled for him but they are not The Man. Really saw it with Zalesky - a tough job for a great wrestler who just couldn't get it together after the Gable group was moving on. He isn't alone, check out Eggum and the Minnesota program after J Robinson retired.

Iowa is good but too many of them are still Grinding away.

[scourge165]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:56 AM, wrestle87 said:

While watching this match the whole time I was thinking “dang, I can’t wait to see this match in a year or two”

Yeah, it's gonna be a helluva match...but are we gonna see it in a year or two? Messenbrink has 4 years on varsity(I don't think I'm going out on a limb here). Sealey I thought would be a '74, but he's not growing. Haines wasn't supposed to spend long at '57. Oh...and Facundo was pretty damn good! 

And PJ Duke, he's probably a '65, no?

 

I probably sound like a PSU fanboi, but I'm not. I'm just amazed at what they're doing. Ohio State or...IDK, some Cali school(this would take a long time) has to get a HUGE donation to start paying Wrestlers and coaches for an RTC if anyone is gonna compete. I'd like to see USC/UCLA bring back their program.

I guess ASU is closer. Stanford is already there, but that is a tougher school to get into and you're limiting your options.

[Hammerlock3]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:38 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yes, Cael looked extremely grateful when he threw a chair at an official.

you mean....the most authentic moment of his coaching career? and i mean that as a compliment he didn't throw it at anyone.

[scourge165]

On 12/9/2023 at 9:12 PM, Le duke said:

 

Where have I said MM is a contender?
I think his ceiling is 3rd this year. I’ve been pretty clear about that. 165 is insanely deep yet again. I think Mesenbrink will win multiple titles, yes, but not this year.

And, guess what: Haines likely beat MM for the 157lb spot. They both certified below 165lbs, and Haines is the 157lb starter. Cael doesn’t play favorites.

Please quote me on the “national team in high school” thing.


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I think that's unlikely...I picked Haines to win it as a true freshman a year before he lost in the finals, but I think at this point there's a gap between he and Messenbrink.

I think MM is a clear contender at 165. His pace and his attacks...I think he's the perfect fit between old-school Iowa, and modern PSU and I think he could certainly knock off one of the top 2. 

I wouldn't bet on MM, I think 3rd is more likely, but I don't think you can write him off.

But I would write off Angelo in this year's 165LB weight.

Which is also fine as he's not Wrestling 165 this year.