Iowa v. Oregon State (Sunday 11-19-23)

[nhs67]

4 minutes ago, Gus said:

 I do not think that 165 was "watered down" either. There was some very bad injury luck to some of the high seeded wrestlers though. Marinelli (the 1 seed) broke ribs, Mekhi (the 4 seed) blew out his shoulder and I believe that Anthony Valencia (the 2 seed) was dealing with injuries also (but I could be misremembering that - ASU fans can fact check me).

165 was watered down because of the allocation criteria given to the EIWA.  Injuries are injuries and happen everywhere all the time.  I wouldn't have used injuries as justification.

27 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

O'Toole.  For that reason I don't necessarily agree that, particularly 165, was "watered down."  

O'Toole was going to wrestle either way.  Askren was adamant on that at the time.

[nhs67]

Another thing to consider, in regards to 2021, was that up until NCAAs the B1G wasn't allowed to wrestle anyone aside for other B1G programs, were they not?

Seeding was entirely fckd up there to boot.

[nhs67]

We are getting off-topic here, and I apologize for my part in that.

IF Arnold takes the mat against Wittlake it is going to be a barn-burner of a match.  I don't necessarily consider it a toss-up, but I don't think Wittlake is some head and shoulders above Arnold favorite.

Anybody who does should pay better attention.

[Le duke]

How do you feel about Cole Mirasola, Rocco Welsh, Tate Naaktaborgen, Luca Augustine? Arnold has a big hit list. If he was wearing a navy colored singlet with a white belt around the middle I think you would have a different feeling about it. 

I don’t think any of those guys are AA-level right now, either, so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make.

Luca Augustine was 15-11 last year, by the way. Beating people in U17 or U20 freestyle is different than beating a grown ass, 22 or 23 year old man in folkstyle.


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[Gus]

6 minutes ago, Le duke said:

I don’t think any of those guys are AA-level right now, either, so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make.

Luca Augustine was 15-11 last year, by the way. Beating people in U17 or U20 freestyle is different than beating a grown ass, 22 or 23 year old man in folkstyle.


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What is your opinion on Josh Barr and Zach Ryder?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, Gus said:

What is your opinion on Josh Barr and Zach Ryder?

Or Luke Lilledahl? Mitchell Messenbrink?  etc.

[ionel]

18 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

 

IF Arnold takes the mat against Wittlake it is going to be a barn-burner of a match.  

say 27 to 32ish? 

[nhs67]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

say 27 to 32ish? 

Like in the neighborhood of 4-2 or less on all sides with Arnold being in deep a few times.

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Like in the neighborhood of 4-2 or less on all sides with Arnold being in deep a few times.

Sounds like mighty small barn.  Sure you aren't talking birdhouse burner?   

[Le duke]

What is your opinion on Josh Barr and Zach Ryder?

Zack Ryder is a year plus younger than Arnold and has already beaten him. He’s a 2x world medalist.

Josh Barr. I hope he is able to find his offense faster than Facundo. They went to the same high school/club, so we’ll see how ingrained habits/style are. I’ll leave it at that.


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[Gus]

3 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Zack Ryder is a year plus younger than Arnold and has already beaten him. He’s a 2x world medalist.

Josh Barr. I hope he is able to find his offense faster than Facundo. They went to the same high school/club, so we’ll see how ingrained habits/style are. I’ll leave it at that.


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Ryder - Arnold was a super close match and Arnold was coming back from injury. To me Ryder/Arnold/Barr/Welsh/Thompson are all super high level wrestlers that can come in and push for the podium right away. I do not think there is much that separates these guys. They are all top 10 P4P recruits.

[nhs67]

Just now, Gus said:

Ryder - Arnold was a super close match and Arnold was coming back from injury. To me Ryder/Arnold/Barr/Welsh/Thompson are all super high level wrestlers that can come in and push for the podium right away. I do not think there is much that separates these guys. They are all top 10 P4P recruits.

My thinking as well.  I think right now their optimum weights would be somewhere between 174/184 but I do think down the line, with the current crop of 184lbers we have (I am talking young gents like Rogers, Berge, etc) that 184 will be the weight to talk about in 2-3 years.

[poorwrestler]

My thinking as well.  I think right now their optimum weights would be somewhere between 174/184 but I do think down the line, with the current crop of 184lbers we have (I am talking young gents like Rogers, Berge, etc) that 184 will be the weight to talk about in 2-3 years.

Shameful promotion of my own favorite team but I have to throw Mcenelly’s name into this list considering he’s a cadet world medalist and was a very highly regarded recruit


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[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, poorwrestler said:

Shameful promotion of my own favorite team but I have to throw Mcenelly’s name into this list considering he’s a cadet world medalist and was a very highly regarded recruit


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Not shameful at all - I think he is right there, too.  IF they all stay or navigate to 184 (Arnold/Thompson) 184 is going to be batshit, man.  McEnelly being left out is my bad.  I mean no sleight to that young man, either.

There are quite a few others that will be in there, too.  Shumate (or Rogotzke), Ferrari, Whiting, Fishback, etc...

Edited November 17, 2023 by nhs67

[Gus]

36 minutes ago, poorwrestler said:

Shameful promotion of my own favorite team but I have to throw Mcenelly’s name into this list considering he’s a cadet world medalist and was a very highly regarded recruit


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Yeah, I did not think about Max because he wrestled 195 in HS but he will definitely be in that 184 mix as well. I think most of these guys end up at 184/197 but Gabe might be a career 174. He is pretty short for 184. 

[poorwrestler]

Yeah, I did not think about Max because he wrestled 195 in HS but he will definitely be in that 184 mix as well. I think most of these guys end up at 184/197 but Gabe might be a career 174. He is pretty short for 184. 

I think there’s a non-zero chance that McEnelly ends up wrestling a year or two at 174 before his college career is over. He’s not a huge 184 by any means.


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[Gus]

7 minutes ago, poorwrestler said:

I think there’s a non-zero chance that McEnelly ends up wrestling a year or two at 174 before his college career is over. He’s not a huge 184 by any means.


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True. I could see him going down to 174 if Salazar stays at 184 next year and he cannot beat him. 

[nhs67]

14 minutes ago, Gus said:

True. I could see him going down to 174 if Salazar stays at 184 next year and he cannot beat him. 

I hadn't considered that.

Would it be inconceivable to think that Salazar may head out for his last year?

Edit: Salazar still has a redshirt available, too.

Edited November 17, 2023 by nhs67

[Gus]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I hadn't considered that.

Would it be inconceivable to think that Salazar may head out for his last year?

Edit: Salazar still has a redshirt available, too.

Probably depends on how he is doing against McEnally and Nelson. Salazar is a huge 184 pounder so I would think he could move up to 197 also. 

[poorwrestler]

Probably depends on how he is doing against McEnally and Nelson. Salazar is a huge 184 pounder so I would think he could move up to 197 also. 

The best case scenario next year is McEnelly 74 Salazar 84 Nelson 97, and McEnelly bumps back up after that. I don’t see either of them beating Salazar this year because he’ll be able to tilt either one of them to a major decision, but next year all bets are off if they can’t make the weights work out.

Worse case scenario is one transfers out obviously.

[nhs67]

5 minutes ago, Gus said:

Probably depends on how he is doing against McEnally and Nelson. Salazar is a huge 184 pounder so I would think he could move up to 197 also. 

He is massive AF, but has been a 184lb 'lifer' so I don't know/think he will be going 197.

It may be simple in that Minny cannot offer him an extension on his financial aide and some other school can throw bags at him.

4 minutes ago, poorwrestler said:

The best case scenario next year is McEnelly 74 Salazar 84 Nelson 97, and McEnelly bumps back up after that. I don’t see either of them beating Salazar this year because he’ll be able to tilt either one of them to a major decision, but next year all bets are off if they can’t make the weights work out.

Worse case scenario is one transfers out obviously.

I think Nelson or McEnelly transferring out is worse case.  They lose production, but I don't think it is an end of the world thing if he transfers out.

[Idaho]

4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

All this said, I expect a one score match and it is a coinflip as to who will win.  I want Wittlake to succeed.  That said it will not surprise me the slightest if Arnold wins.

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

IF Arnold takes the mat against Wittlake it is going to be a barn-burner of a match.  I don't necessarily consider it a toss-up, but I don't think Wittlake is some head and shoulders above Arnold favorite.

So what is the difference between saying "It's coinflip as to who will win" and "I don't necessarily consider it a toss-up." ?  Aren't  coin flip and toss up the same thing? 

[nhs67]

4 minutes ago, Idaho said:

So what is the difference between saying "It's coinflip as to who will win" and "I don't necessarily consider it a toss-up." ?  Aren't  coin flip and toss up the same thing? 

The difference is there was a two hour discussion between the two.  I am human and am okay being wrong, thus allowing myself to change my perspective and stance on what is going to be a tight match.

I am sorry I offended you.  You should know me better than to take that seriously.

Edit: Also, you miss the entire point of me even opening my mouth.  There were people (plural) saying that it, more or less, wasn't going to be a match and there were no indicating factors that it could be.  I came along to explain why folks were 'underselling' Wittlake.  That didn't mean I was, and if you want to quote some more of my posts you will see I also said that - offering props to Wittlake several times.

Edited November 17, 2023 by nhs67

[Idaho]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

The difference is there was a two hour discussion between the two.  I am human and am okay being wrong, thus allowing myself to change my perspective and stance on what is going to be a tight match.

I am sorry I offended you.  You should know me better than to take that seriously.

haha... not offended at all...rarely am.....and yes, knowing you, I was expecting a way more entertaining answer. I am disappointed. Get it together man.  

[nhs67]

Just now, Idaho said:

haha... not offended at all...rarely am.....and yes, knowing you, I was expecting a way more entertaining answer. I am disappointed. Get it together man.  

Bah.

I am not going to try to beat around that bush with you.  I like you.

Some other turdbiscuit tries to call me out for wiffle-waffling I might try to lie about it, though.