Is Penn State Twice as Good as Anyone Else?

[D3 for LU]

I'm sorry, but I just don't like one team holding on to all the power to run up the  number of titles.

Mr. Jinks seems to have the gist of it, down pat... if meeces were the nit wrestling team :

(Might be fun to all the nit fans, but it leaves others just... cold!)

D3

[ionel]

3 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I can personally guarantee it.  

The Fly kiss of death, thank you.  

[Caveira]

On 9/29/2023 at 12:03 PM, 11986 said:

you're right Whitmer was the one change in direct outcome. Guess I was thinking more in terms of relative scoring working out more in Iowa's favor so to speak. 142 - a reg decision win is big in an 8 point margin dual. Guessing Reyna and Gillis (4th and 6th at NCAAs, Gillis more bonus I think) were basically a wash in tournament scoring. 167 and 177 - 8 team points for Ok St in dual is margin of victory, and tournament wise those weights vs Iowa were expected to be very lopsided as well. Still solid in Ok St favor but Iowa made up ground from dual domination with Uker placing 6 from 11 seed and at 177 with Ersland losing in blood rd from non-seed and Smith only getting 4th from 1 seed. That kind of thing.

and again you are right Licnoln would have needed bonus to tie the dual and Arias was a tough out. 

and yes Ok St was very very good that year. Probably one of the better teams ever to not win it. Iowa in addition to being very good also just caught fire that tournament and ended any doubt fairly quickly. 

Not unreasonable mac getting a major.  Osu went into ncaa the 10 or 11 seed I think.   Mac majored the 8 seed in the quarters.   At least I think it was the quarters. 

[Fadzaev2]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:47 PM, ionel said:

But ... did you ever try to dodge the ball?  just ask'n. 

The term battleball just sounds better.....we had variations too for the game...one of them was awesome, but to complex too describe here.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Fadzaev2

[fishbane]

13 hours ago, Caveira said:

Not unreasonable mac getting a major.  Osu went into ncaa the 10 or 11 seed I think.   Mac majored the 8 seed in the quarters.   At least I think it was the quarters. 

He would have needed a major to tie the dual.  During the season in question, 1996-97, I think there were ties in duals, but this was for the NWCA National duals championships, so presumably some tie breaking criteria would have come into play.  I can't imagine they would just share the title.  I have no idea what the tie breaking criteria was for the event, but applying the current criteria to the dual would favor OSU.  Assuming McIlravy majored Arias the teams would be tied in team points (17-17), first criteria - match victories (5-5), and second criteria - # of Pins, forfeits, DQ, defaults (0-0).  The third criteria, total match points from Dec, MD, and TF would likely settle things.  In the 9 other matches OSU held an edge in total match points 53-36.  It would be impossible for McIlravy to close the match point gap via a MD.  He would need an edge of 17 points which would be a TF and then the team score wouldn't be tied.  Maybe if the 4 point TF was a thing in 1997 he could have won by 17 with the team score tied and the total match points tied.  Even in that highly unlikely outcome (how do you get a 17 point advantage w/o NF?) OSU would likely just win on the 4th criteria - total NF points.  OSU had a 4-1 NF advantage in the dual and I doubt Arias accounted for 3 of those.

For McIlravy to change the outcome of the dual he would need at least a 5 point TF over Arias.  Keep in mind that McIlravy was not wrestling for a reason (concussion symptoms) which makes a TF less likely.  Also where the bout would have been wrestled in the dual could have come into play.  At the 150lb bout OSU was up, but they had not yet scored any bonus points.  It would not have been clear that a TF was going to be the difference in the dual so McIlravy may not have had felt the urgency to get it.