PSU's lineup for 2023-24

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Also all of Howard’s results are as true freshman  during the Covid pandemic and coming off of arthroscopic surgery on his shoulder so he didn’t train that whole summer prior , not to mention he was young and had just turned 18 after he got to college , mchenry results are spread out over 3 years of being in one the best rooms in the country and he was still losing to back ups last season 

Agree on Howard.  But the results I listed for McHenry were just last season.   He was 5-0 in 2022 but only wrestled backups or D2 guys.    He was 0-2 in 2021 losing to Heinselman and Jacob Moran but I assume he was probably at his smallest then, so wouldn't put much stock into those losses (and of course Heinselman in particular isn't a bad loss).

[Pinnacle]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

The biggest IF in this entire scenario is IF Howard is healthy. 

This is the biggest "IF" in this discussion. If Howard is healthy I like him to get the starting position vs McHenry or anyone else at PSU. Howard was improving his freshman year and he's a tough wrestler when healthy. 

[Antitroll2828]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Agree on Howard.  But the results I listed for McHenry were just last season.   He was 5-0 in 2022 but only wrestled backups or D2 guys.    He was 0-2 in 2021 losing to Heinselman and Jacob Moran but I assume he was probably at his smallest then, so wouldn't put much stock into those losses (and of course Heinselman in particular isn't a bad loss).

No not saying heinselman is a bad lose but the loses last year to the Utah valley guy and Gonzales Ohio states back up/3rd stringer give me pause when matching up his potential this year to a healthy Robbie Howard who was the first American to make 3 cadet teams and has been learning in the best room in the world the past 3 years 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Antitroll2828

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Pinnacle said:

This is the biggest "IF" in this discussion. If Howard is healthy I like him to get the starting position vs McHenry or anyone else at PSU. Howard was improving his freshman year and he's a tough wrestler when healthy. 

This is a complete unknown.  He is a tough wrestler when not healthy.  He has established that.

He hasn't been healthy in the better part of a decade.  That is significant when talking about someone who is barely older than twenty.

[nhs67]

11 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

No not saying heinselman is a bad lose but the loses last year to the Utah valley guy and Gonzales Ohio states back up/3rd stringer give me pause when matching up his potential this year to a healthy Robbie Howard who was the first American to make 3 cadet teams and has been learning in the best room in the world the past 3 years 

Again... if he is healthy.  That is a 'need to see' to believe scenario for me and it should be for anybody who is a fan of NCAA D1 wrestling.

All of this said, in their limited action (McHenry and Howard) they have earned themselves a rating of #28 (Howard) and #32 (McHenry), respectively.  Those are off results that happened.

As I said from the start, they are comparable.  That was all.  There was no reason for you to get all uppity about it, even if he is a Juzzy Boi.

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

No not saying heinselman is a bad lose but the loses last year to the Utah valley guy and Gonzales Ohio states back up/3rd stringer give me pause when matching up his potential this year to a healthy Robbie Howard who was the first American to make 3 cadet teams and has been learning in the best room in the world the past 3 years 

Yup, McHenry's losses are probably what sets them apart based on results so far.   McHenry has a couple bad ones, Howard doesn't have any (although of course he's only wrestled 13 total).

[nhs67]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yup, McHenry's losses are probably what sets them apart based on results so far.   McHenry has a couple bad ones, Howard doesn't have any (although of course he's only wrestled 13 total).

To be fair, neither have wrestled many.  McHenry has wrestled an average of 4.5 matches per season in the four previous years and Howard an average of 4.3 in his three previous years.

[1032004]

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Again... if he is healthy.  That is a 'need to see' to believe scenario for me and it should be for anybody who is a fan of NCAA D1 wrestling.

All of this said, in their limited action (McHenry and Howard) they have earned themselves a rating of #28 (Howard) and #32 (McHenry), respectively.  Those are off results that happened.

As I said from the start, they are comparable.  That was all.  There was no reason for you to get all uppity about it, even if he is a Juzzy Boi.

Interestingly, looking at wrestlestat for 125 starters, only 71 ELO points separate #4 and #32 (they do have Howard as the #25 starter and McHenry would be #28 if he was listed instead of Howard).    For comparison, at 133, it's exactly double that at 142 ELO points separating #4 and #32.

Although for 125, not sure how they have Eli Griffin at #13, who didn't even wrestle in the conference tournament last year.  He had a couple decent wins, beating Volk (major), Mauger (pin, but was also pinned by him in a different match), and Terukina, but nothing spectacular.  Meanwhile you have guys like former AA Brandon Kaylor down at #18 among starters.  Yes I know they're just "ratings not rankings," but sure seems like they put too much emphasis on bonus points and not enough on postseason performance.   

[nhs67]

29 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Interestingly, looking at wrestlestat for 125 starters, only 71 ELO points separate #4 and #32 (they do have Howard as the #25 starter and McHenry would be #28 if he was listed instead of Howard).    For comparison, at 133, it's exactly double that at 142 ELO points separating #4 and #32.

Although for 125, not sure how they have Eli Griffin at #13, who didn't even wrestle in the conference tournament last year.  He had a couple decent wins, beating Volk (major), Mauger (pin, but was also pinned by him in a different match), and Terukina, but nothing spectacular.  Meanwhile you have guys like former AA Brandon Kaylor down at #18 among starters.  Yes I know they're just "ratings not rankings," but sure seems like they put too much emphasis on bonus points and not enough on postseason performance.   

On the surface that does seem a bit off, I agree.

Did Kaylor get pinned a time or three towards the end of the season?

[Idaho]

Tough

[nhs67]

7 hours ago, Idaho said:

Tough

What you mean?

[1032004]

On 8/24/2023 at 3:24 PM, nhs67 said:

On the surface that does seem a bit off, I agree.

Did Kaylor get pinned a time or three towards the end of the season?

Looks like the only time he got pinned last season was by Barnett at NCAA’s. He had a bunch of losses but most were to pretty good guys, and did have wins over Courtney, Ventresca, Peterson, and Heinselman.

[juniorvarsity]

Penn State, based on preseason rankings, picked up 30 tournament team points through the portal. I realized this today and it bothers me. That is more points than my Buckeyes currently have based on preseason ranking projections. Those points will not even be needed to win the trophy, but still, I do not like it.

[Gus]

31 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

Penn State, based on preseason rankings, picked up 30 tournament team points through the portal. I realized this today and it bothers me. That is more points than my Buckeyes currently have based on preseason ranking projections. Those points will not even be needed to win the trophy, but still, I do not like it.

And that does not even account for Mesenbrink, who may be their true prize from the portal. 

[juniorvarsity]

1 hour ago, Gus said:

And that does not even account for Mesenbrink, who may be their true prize from the portal. 

you're right. that too.

i like that kid, though. he is so fun to watch. he might carry on the torch of PSU guys with high octane offense. that is fun for everyone to watch. 

also, Joe Sealey is going to PSU. How is everyone going to fit in that lineup.

and is Kasak going to go 141? Van Ness is going to hold down 149

[Elevator]

24 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

you're right. that too.

i like that kid, though. he is so fun to watch. he might carry on the torch of PSU guys with high octane offense. that is fun for everyone to watch. 

also, Joe Sealey is going to PSU. How is everyone going to fit in that lineup.

and is Kasak going to go 141? Van Ness is going to hold down 149

Crowded room with impressive depth, perhaps except 285.   '23-'24 roster is not yet posted and my brain/memory is not good, but I do not recall much depth at 285 Last year's roster does not show much behind Kerkvliet that will still be there.  I think recruit Mirasola the larger may project 285 but not there this year.   Did have success with 197 bump up but not ideal.