Election and Jan 6 charges

[DJT]

13 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

You seem to be blaming these scandalous crimes on not enough cops.  If so, that is rich beyond words.

I think the point is, there (purposefully?) wasn’t enough security present to handle the crowd and/or the security present (purposefully?) did not adequately control the crowd. That and, judging by all of the conspiracy charges against protesters and some people who weren’t even there, it was an (purposeful?) intelligence failure on the part of the FBI and SS. That doesn’t bode well, since, “White nationalist domestic terrorists are the greatest threat to our country,” according to Biden, Garland and Mayorkas.

Edited August 3, 2023 by DJT

[Wrestleknownothing]

9 minutes ago, DJT said:

I think the point is, there (purposefully?) wasn’t enough security present to handle the crowd and/or the security present (purposefully?) did not adequately control the crowd. That and, judging by all of the conspiracy charges against protesters and some people who weren’t even there, it was an (purposeful?) intelligence failure on the part of the FBI and SS. That doesn’t bode well, since, “White nationalist domestic terrorists are the greatest threat to our country,” according to Biden, Garland and Mayorkas.

Entrapment by lack of police?

[Paul158]

10 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

You seem to be blaming these scandalous crimes on not enough cops.  If so, that is rich beyond words.

Ok . Number 1 . What is the purpose of security? It is supposed to be adequate to keep people and property safe and secure. The Chief of the Capital Police told the Seargent-at Arms in the House and the Senate way in advance the security he had was not adequate to protect the people and the Capital. They turned him down multiple times because of Optics. That is criminal. Anyone with half a brain new the protestors would be there in large numbers protesting. They new the protestors were upset because of the election. So you need a security force large enough to keep people safe. This is done all the time. So to not understand that is reach beyond words.

[DJT]

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Entrapment by lack of police?

Numerous videos show capitol police officers holding doors open for protesters, waving them inside the capitol, escorting them around, etc. The blame shouldn’t land on those on the ground, because they found themselves in a losing battle and did their best (except Michael Byrd, he’s a cold-blooded murderer). You have to move up the chain to those who put them in that situation to lay the blame, up to the Capitol Police Chief, Sergeant at Arms, Nancy Pelosi, the DC Mayor, FBI DC Field Office Assistant Director, Agents and Analysts in Charge, and FBI leadership. 

Whatever happened, happened. All the focus is on punishing the protesters and now Trump, while ignoring how and why there were systemic failures that allowed it to happened, and how to prevent it from happening again. 

[Plasmodium]

The responsibility lies with the criminals.  Is there a difference between this and some dude walking into small town CVS and stealing all the nicotine patches just 'cause Andy and Barney are out fishin'?

[DJT]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

The responsibility lies with the criminals.  Is there a difference between this and some dude walking into small town CVS and stealing all the nicotine patches just 'cause Andy and Barney are out fishin'?

If it happened because all of the employees were out back smoking weed, should they not be disciplined, because the responsibility lies with the thief? 

If it happened because the store manager doesn’t schedule enough workers, because she wants a higher store profit to get a bigger bonus, should she not be disciplined?

Should CVS do nothing to prevent it from happening again? Move the nicotine to a shelf with a sight line of the pharmacy, put anti-theft devices in the box, put them in a locked display, put them behind the counter, etc.?

I assume you are Pro Derek Chauvin, anti-gun control, and against TSA checkpoints, because the responsibility lies with the criminals, and we shouldn’t learn anything from their behavior?

[WrestlingRasta]

I see some of us went through Capitol security school last night. Nice! 

[WrestlingRasta]

Looks like Georgia indictment about to drop anytime.   Statement from Willis: The work is accomplished. We’re ready to go. The perimeter is secure: Orange barricades have been installed outside the entrance to the Fulton County courthouse. Numerous other measures have been taken to enhance safety and security—in preparation for high-profile legal proceedings.

I wonder if they will wait until Congress is back so they can file right after the next dick pic hearing......or if they will just go on about their business?

[Bigbrog]

7 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

The responsibility lies with the criminals.  Is there a difference between this and some dude walking into small town CVS and stealing all the nicotine patches just 'cause Andy and Barney are out fishin'?

I completely agree with this statement!!  Now Plasi...let's walk that through the police shootings that caused mass riots and cities to be destroyed and let's see what your feelings are? 

Again, I agree that responsibility ultimately falls on the criminals.  However, I also agree if you know ahead of time criminals may commit a crime, and the powers that be don't provide the appropriate law enforcement to hopefully deter said criminals from committing a crime, then responsibility is to be expected on both sides, the criminals AND the powers that be.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bigbrog

[DJT]

53 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Looks like Georgia indictment about to drop anytime.   Statement from Willis: The work is accomplished. We’re ready to go. The perimeter is secure: Orange barricades have been installed outside the entrance to the Fulton County courthouse. Numerous other measures have been taken to enhance safety and security—in preparation for high-profile legal proceedings.

Damn. Sounds like Fulton County should’ve been in charge of Capitol security on J6.

[DJT]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I see some of us went through Capitol security school last night. Nice! 

I fit it in between watching JFK Revisited (highly recommended) and my late night ice cream binge.

[Plasmodium]

5 hours ago, DJT said:

If it happened because all of the employees were out back smoking weed, should they not be disciplined, because the responsibility lies with the thief? 

If it happened because the store manager doesn’t schedule enough workers, because she wants a higher store profit to get a bigger bonus, should she not be disciplined?

Should CVS do nothing to prevent it from happening again? Move the nicotine to a shelf with a sight line of the pharmacy, put anti-theft devices in the box, put them in a locked display, put them behind the counter, etc.?mup

I assume you are Pro Derek Chauvin, anti-gun control, and against TSA checkpoints, because the responsibility lies with the criminals, and we shouldn’t learn anything from their behavior?

Staff weren't smoking weed.  They were on duty.  We are talking about a smash and grab here.  Dude overpowered the existing staff and the patches were under lock and key.  Dude stole it even though he knew he wasn't supposed to.  Not much CVS can do.

Big difference between beefing up security and absolving people of culpability.

 

[Plasmodium]

For those who were on vacation J6, there were cops, barricades, locked doors and tear gas deployed.  People lost their lives.  Next time, we deploy helicopter gunships and mow these animals down?

[WrestlingRasta]

36 minutes ago, DJT said:

I fit it in between watching JFK Revisited (highly recommended) and my late night ice cream binge.

That is a great show. 
Love me some JFK talk. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by WrestlingRasta

[Wrestleknownothing]

39 minutes ago, DJT said:

I fit it in between watching JFK Revisited (highly recommended) and my late night ice cream binge.

you left out a (highly recommended).

[Paul158]

40 minutes ago, DJT said:

Damn. Sounds like Fulton County should’ve been in charge of Capitol security on J6.

Yes.They are going way overboard  in Georgia while on Jan.6th they had intel to get more security way in advance and have in place the night before and in the morning of Jan. 6th. But because of Optics they denied the extra security. The Worst security failure since the 911 attacks.

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

I completely agree with this statement!!  Now Plasi...let's walk that through the police shootings that caused mass riots and cities to be destroyed and let's see what your feelings are? 

Again, I agree that responsibility ultimately falls on the criminals.  However, I also agree if you know ahead of time criminals may commit a crime, and the powers that be don't provide the appropriate law enforcement to hopefully deter said criminals from committing a crime, then responsibility is to be expected on both sides, the criminals AND the powers that be.

I don't advocate for people to be absolved of their violent crimes, so if you loot or destroy property you should be prosecuted.

The only culprits on J6 are MAGA.  That incident was unprecedented.  The Monday morning quarterbacks can criticize and there are certainly lessons to learn.  Looks to me like they learned them and everybody visiting the capital now has a diminished experience because of them.

[WrestlingRasta]

I've always had trouble connecting how it was a both massive security failure to allow all of that violence, but also merely a peaceful protest with the exception of a handful of rogue agents.   

[Plasmodium]

10 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I've always had trouble connecting how it was a both massive security failure to allow all of that violence, but also merely a peaceful protest with the exception of a handful of rogue agents.   

Keep in mind, life is full of dichotomies.  For example, Joe Biden is a senile buffoon and at the same time was able to organize and implement a 20 million dead voter scheme to steal an election.

[DJT]

46 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Staff weren't smoking weed.  They were on duty.  We are talking about a smash and grab here.  Dude overpowered the existing staff and the patches were under lock and key.  Dude stole it even though he knew he wasn't supposed to.  Not much CVS can do.

Big difference between beefing up security and absolving people of culpability.

 

I’m not for absolving the protesters of all culpability. However, there are clearly layers to this, and to simplify it as being solely the fault of the protesters is disingenuous.

Case in point, CHOP/CHAZ in Seattle. Yes, it was the insurrectionists fault, but the city was found culpable as well by the courts for letting it happen (the mayor told the police chief to stand down and let the rioters take control of the area) and was forced to pay millions to the residents/business owners of the district for failing to protect their constitutional right to property.

[Paul158]

5 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I've always had trouble connecting how it was a both massive security failure to allow all of that violence, but also merely a peaceful protest with the exception of a handful of rogue agents.   

Protecting the Capital and the people in it on Jan. 6th should have been a slam dunk. Multiple agencies totally failed in their responsibilities. The intel was there all but one agency ignored it. The protestors shouldn't have been violent . Those that committed violence should be prosecuted fairly. The agencies who failed should be held accountable.

[DJT]

55 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

That is a great show. 
Love me some JFK talk. 

The Russell Brand podcast last week with Oliver Stone was good… It reminded me to look up JFK Revisited on Prime.

[Scouts Honor]

its called deterrence

something we have very little of... which is why you see the current crime spree

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Scouts Honor said:

its called deterrence

something we have very little of... which is why you see the current crime spree

 

I agree Nov. 2020 through Jan. 6, 2021 was a crime spree.

[Scouts Honor]

perhaps.

but not the point.