What News Shows Do You Like?

[VakAttack]

7 hours ago, Le duke said:

 

No. We are sending M483A1 155mm rounds. GPS enabled 155mm rounds with submunitions are not dumb, Vietnam-era clusterbombs. There is a massive difference.

Also, trainloads of 20-40 year old men from Ukraine arrive in Germany every day… for military training.

The 200k Russian troops will be the poorest equipped and trained yet. They are sending 1940s-era relics to the front these days. T54s/55s. M483A1s will chew through those like a can opener opening a pack of sardines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

All reporting (and Biden's statements) I've read describes what we're sending now as clusterbombs.  I'm not an ordinance expert, but is that incorrect?  Why are they using that language?

[Le duke]

All reporting (and Biden's statements) I've read describes what we're sending now as clusterbombs.  I'm not an ordinance expert, but is that incorrect?  Why are they using that language?

It’s incorrect reporting.

We are sending 155mm rounds, not bombs.

It doesn’t make sense to send bombs; you have to have air superiority to use them, which the Ukrainians don’t currently have. Likely get smoked by a SAM before getting close enough to drop most munitions.

Whereas,with a 155mm battery, you can shoot and scoot from 20+ miles away. And these particular munitions are well suited to clearing trenches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Offthemat]

If you consider objects that are propelled through the air and explode upon landing or contacting something to be a bomb, then they are bombs.  When reports say the artillery bombed so and so, it means the same thing as if they say they shelled so and so. 

[Husker_Du]

all the reporting (from sources on both sides) have called them 'cluster bombs'. 

whatever the case, it doesn't seem to be a good thing.

and that Russia isn't involved in the treaty makes little difference imo. the result is the same.

[Le duke]

If you consider objects that are propelled through the air and explode upon landing or contacting something to be a bomb, then they are bombs.  When reports say the artillery bombed so and so, it means the same thing as if they say they shelled so and so. 

Bombs are not propelled through the air; and they are not fired from an artillery.

Also, artillery does not do “bombing”.

Literally no one who knows anything about this would agree with anything you’ve said here. Maybe consider not expressing an opinion on the matter, eh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Le duke]

all the reporting (from sources on both sides) have called them 'cluster bombs'. 
whatever the case, it doesn't seem to be a good thing.
and that Russia isn't involved in the treaty makes little difference imo. the result is the same.

They aren’t cluster bombs. They are cluster munitions.

Old cluster bombs (Vietnam era) had pretty terrible UXO rates; sometimes 40%. They were also dumb bombs that could end up wildly off target. These have rates below 2%, they’re going to be fired by the best howitzer the world has ever seen and will be fired at fixed targets, specifically Russian trenches.

If you’re in your house, shooting at me, and I’m a quarter mile away from you and I know where I am, I can call for fire from an M777 battery 15 miles away and with unguided munitions, they’ll likely put a round in your yard on the first salvo, vaporizing you.

If your perspective is that of a Russian soldier, no, it’s not a good thing. If you are a Ukrainian trying to clear out a Russian trench and mine fortification, it’s amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[headshuck]

It’s a cluster all right.

[Husker_Du]

37 minutes ago, Le duke said:

They aren’t cluster bombs. They are cluster munitions.

Old cluster bombs (Vietnam era) had pretty terrible UXO rates; sometimes 40%. They were also dumb bombs that could end up wildly off target. These have rates below 2%, they’re going to be fired by the best howitzer the world has ever seen and will be fired at fixed targets, specifically Russian trenches.

If you’re in your house, shooting at me, and I’m a quarter mile away from you and I know where I am, I can call for fire from an M777 battery 15 miles away and with unguided munitions, they’ll likely put a round in your yard on the first salvo, vaporizing you.

If your perspective is that of a Russian soldier, no, it’s not a good thing. If you are a Ukrainian trying to clear out a Russian trench and mine fortification, it’s amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i believe you and thank you fo explaining the difference

that being said, i'm literally watching CNN right now and Biden is talking about them (he says munitions) but the chyron reads 'cluster bombs'

[Le duke]

i believe you and thank you fo explaining the difference
that being said, i'm literally watching CNN right now and Biden is talking about them (he says munitions) but the chyron reads 'cluster bombs'

Biden is right, all of the news outlets are wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Husker_Du]

i see that. 

can i ask you though - are 'cluster munitions' considered 'dirty tactics' as 'cluster bombs' are?

if so, it's not cool imo. and you can bet your ass this will be thrown back in our faces. 

[Le duke]

i see that. 
can i ask you though - are 'cluster munitions' considered 'dirty tactics' as 'cluster bombs' are?
if so, it's not cool imo. and you can bet your ass this will be thrown back in our faces. 

Russia has been using cluster bombs and munitions since the start of the war, against civilians, so I’m not sure they’d have much of a leg to stand on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DJT]

Do bomb shelters work against all munitions or just bombs? 
 

I know what you’re saying le duke, but it’s more than less semantics.

Edited July 8, 2023 by DJT

[Husker_Du]

43 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Russia has been using cluster bombs and munitions since the start of the war, against civilians, so I’m not sure they’d have much of a leg to stand on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i don't think we want our standard for human rights violations to be the lowest common denominator w/ Russia

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

Bombs are not propelled through the air; and they are not fired from an artillery.

Also, artillery does not do “bombing”.

Literally no one who knows anything about this would agree with anything you’ve said here. Maybe consider not expressing an opinion on the matter, eh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You’ve got a lot of nerve.  Munitions my ass.  It’s an explosion whether it was dropped from the sky, fired out of a cannon, a car bomb, a pipe bomb, or whatever.  The complaint about these is the unexploded parts (your UXO, o is for ordinance) that can be accidentally detonated by innocent civilians and it doesn’t matter if russia is using them, two wrongs don’t make a right.  

[Offthemat]

44 minutes ago, DJT said:

Do bomb shelters work against all munitions or just bombs? 
 

I know what you’re saying le duke, but it’s more than less semantics.

Good question.  There are different grades of shelters and different sizes and types of explosives.  Best to only have to use them for weather protection.  

[Offthemat]

Here’s a snippet from an article on the subject:

 

”The munitions typically release large numbers of smaller bomblets that can kill indiscriminately over a wide area, threatening civilians. Bomblets that fail to explode pose a danger for years after a conflict ends.”

 

It uses the term “munitions” and then introduces a new term “bomblets.”  Do we know from where bomblets come from?

[Husker_Du]

just semantics. 

sounds totally fine. 

[Le duke]

You’ve got a lot of nerve.  Munitions my ass.  It’s an explosion whether it was dropped from the sky, fired out of a cannon, a car bomb, a pipe bomb, or whatever.  The complaint about these is the unexploded parts (your UXO, o is for ordinance) that can be accidentally detonated by innocent civilians and it doesn’t matter if russia is using them, two wrongs don’t make a right.  

How many innocent civilians do you think are going to be hanging out in Russian trenches? Because that is going to be the target. They aren’t going to be firing these indiscriminately into their own towns and cities, unlike the Russians, who still regularly target civilians in Ukraine and Syria.

Oh, and thanks for explaining UXO to me. I had no clue what it meant. /s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Le duke]

Here’s a snippet from an article on the subject:
 
”The munitions typically release large numbers of smaller bomblets that can kill indiscriminately over a wide area, threatening civilians. Bomblets that fail to explode pose a danger for years after a conflict ends.”
 
It uses the term “munitions” and then introduces a new term “bomblets.”  Do we know from where bomblets come from?

Here’s a question for you:

If 5,000 Ukrainians are killed by submunitions in the next 20 years, but they force Russia to retreat, is that better or worse than 100,000 Ukrainians dying and 300,000 more families/children being kidnapped?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DJT]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

Here’s a snippet from an article on the subject:

 

”The munitions typically release large numbers of smaller bomblets that can kill indiscriminately over a wide area, threatening civilians. Bomblets that fail to explode pose a danger for years after a conflict ends.”

 

It uses the term “munitions” and then introduces a new term “bomblets.”  Do we know from where bomblets come from?

The not cluster bombs are a 36” long x 6” diameter projectile filled with 88 grenades, about the size of 8 oz. soda cans. At a designated height above the ground, the projectile releases the grenades which can spread out covering up to 20 acres or more, depending on the height of dispersal. The grenades rely on a ribbon to arm them as they descend to the earth. If the ribbon arms the fuse, the grenade will explode on impact. If it does not, they become live ordinances to be found for decades after the present trenches become farmland, playgrounds and puppy sanctuaries.

[swoopdown]

one stop shopping - https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

[jross]

This forum, Rokfin, and Flo for wrestling news.  Twitter for general news.  Reddit for corporate leaks.  Bloomberg TV for finance.  I have little trust in major news, including those marked as unbiased.  Validation, thought, and research shows the unbiased-rated news is typically biased :).  I scan the major news headlines and stories to stay informed on the latest propoganda.

 

[Husker_Du]