Who would be more desired as a college head coach: Spencer or Jordan?

[jackwebster]

Spencer is too little. I guess I'm shallow. But I remember the local paper (student newspaper ?) story when Brands took over at VATech. The reporter made the point (repeatedly) that Brands was a small man. The implication was that a little guy lacks a certain presence, gravitas and can't be taken seriously, esp when he gets fired up. 

[82bordeaux]

How old is Larry Lee? That would have to be taken into consideration because if he gets too old to hold the press conferences for Spencer, who will make sympathetic pleas on his behalf? Can't see Cathy doing it.

So I'm going JB. Lo Lo Burroughs is young enough to fill that role for as long as Jordan wants to coach.

[nhs67]

5 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Spencer is too little. I guess I'm shallow. But I remember the local paper (student newspaper ?) story when Brands took over at VATech. The reporter made the point (repeatedly) that Brands was a small man. The implication was that a little guy lacks a certain presence, gravitas and can't be taken seriously, esp when he gets fired up. 

Not you, but that newspaper showed it's ignorance here.  Had weigh-in rules been present to today's standards it is likely the Brands Bros were at least one weight class higher.  So Tom would have been 141.  If you recall quite a few gents (Cunningham bros, for example) did a 'double bump' at CMU (thank you for the reminder of that Flo...).  I would put Tom firmly entrenched in the 'average' man market.  Terry's mentality alone sprays him right in the small man category.  If that guy was twelve foot tall he would still have napoleon syndrome.

19 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said:

How old is Larry Lee? That would have to be taken into consideration because if he gets too old to hold the press conferences for Spencer, who will make sympathetic pleas on his behalf? Can't see Cathy doing it.

So I'm going JB. Lo Lo Burroughs is young enough to fill that role for as long as Jordan wants to coach.

This is funny as hell.  I might add that it would be convenient that Cathy went "Je ne parle pas la langue anglaise." on all of us.

[Gus]

On 7/3/2023 at 5:09 PM, AgaveMaria said:

Many great wrestlers were not great coaches. Kevin Jackson comes to mind here as a head coach. A lot of promise and talent but never quite got the team firing on all cylinders. Sammy Henson and so many others somehow can't get the team to perform. Cael, Smith, Gable, Jones - they are the exception, not the rule.

What other sport finds the coach going live against their athletes in practice? Or, in actual competition - like Midlands? The number of good coaches who spend actual mat time with their wrestlers is a surprise to many not familiar with the sport.

For many who pick a school with an accomplished coach the excitement of going live with that coach on the mat is part of the attraction. Guys went with Gable knowing they could roll with him on the mat. Myron Roderick, John Smith and so many others do/did the same. Not many swimming/football/basketball coaches go live with their athletes. A number of wrestling coaches do.

Good coaches being excellent former wrestlers is definitely the rule, not the exception. Look at the landscape of college wrestling and most of the successful D1 teams have former NCAA champs/finalists as head coaches. 

[Gus]

On 7/3/2023 at 5:09 PM, AgaveMaria said:

Many great wrestlers were not great coaches. Kevin Jackson comes to mind here as a head coach. A lot of promise and talent but never quite got the team firing on all cylinders. Sammy Henson and so many others somehow can't get the team to perform. Cael, Smith, Gable, Jones - they are the exception, not the rule.

What other sport finds the coach going live against their athletes in practice? Or, in actual competition - like Midlands? The number of good coaches who spend actual mat time with their wrestlers is a surprise to many not familiar with the sport.

For many who pick a school with an accomplished coach the excitement of going live with that coach on the mat is part of the attraction. Guys went with Gable knowing they could roll with him on the mat. Myron Roderick, John Smith and so many others do/did the same. Not many swimming/football/basketball coaches go live with their athletes. A number of wrestling coaches do.

 

19 minutes ago, Gus said:

Good coaches being excellent former wrestlers is definitely the rule, not the exception. Look at the landscape of college wrestling and most of the successful D1 teams have former NCAA champs/finalists as head coaches. 

To further expound on this lets look at the top 20 (21 total teams because of a tie for 20) teams from last years NCAA tournament. Only 4 coaches failed to AA as a competitor. 10 coaches were NCAA champions (9 D1 champions), 15 were NCAA finalists, 17 were AA's. I did not list international accolades but main of these coaches have made world and olympic teams and took home medals.

1. PSU: Cael Sanderson, 4x NCAA Champ

2. Iowa: Tom Brands, 3x NCAA Champ, 4x AA

3. Cornell: Mike Grey, 2x AA

4. Ohio State: Tom Ryan, 1x Finalist, 2xAA

5. Mizzou: Brian Smith

6: Michigan: Sean Bormet, 1x Finalist, 2xAA

7: ASU: Zeke Jones, 1x Finalist, 3xAA

8: Nebraska: Mark Manning, 2x D2 NCAA Champ, 3x D2 AA

9: VT: Tony Robie, 1x NCAA finalist, 2x AA

10: NCST: Pat Popolizio

11: ISU: Kevin Dresser, 1x NCAA Champ, 2xAA

12: UNC: Coleman Scott, 1x NCAA Champ, 4xAA

13: Princeton: Chris Ayres, 1xAA

14: SDSU: Damion Hahn, 2x NCAA Champ, 4x AA

15: Minnesota: Brandon Eggum, 1x Finalist, 3xAA

16: UNI: Doug Schwabb, 1x NCAA Champ, 3xAA

16: Wisconsin: Chris Bono, 1x NCAA Champ, 3xAA

18: Ok State: John Smith, 2x NCAA Champ, 3x Finalist

18: Air Force: Sam Barber

20: Lehigh: Pat Santoro, 2x NCAA Champ, 4xAA

20: Purdue: Tony Ersland

 

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Not you, but that newspaper showed it's ignorance here.  Had weigh-in rules been present to today's standards it is likely the Brands Bros were at least one weight class higher.  So Tom would have been 141.  If you recall quite a few gents (Cunningham bros, for example) did a 'double bump' at CMU (thank you for the reminder of that Flo...).  I would put Tom firmly entrenched in the 'average' man market.  Terry's mentality alone sprays him right in the small man category.  If that guy was twelve foot tall he would still have napoleon syndrome.

Didn't Cunningham win his title at 157?  That's two weight classes up from Brands.  Cunningham went from 142-157, but that was the year of the change, so it was really only going up 1 weight, especially since the year before they had a near year long 7lb weight allowance because of the weight cutting deaths.

If a weight is underrepresented among NCAA coaches it seems to be the big guys more than the little ones.  Nickerson, Jones, and Escobedo all competed in the lightest weight class.  Grey and  Scott wrestled in the second lightest weight class.  The only head coach that wrestled at 285 I think is Joel Greenlee.  Is he still on administrative leave? 

[mspart]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:09 PM, AgaveMaria said:

Not many swimming/football/basketball coaches go live with their athletes. A number of wrestling coaches do.

Ha!!!  You won't find a swimming coach or a lifeguard for that matter that will ever voluntarily go into the water.   Yes wrestling is an exception. 

mspart

 

[nhs67]

9 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Didn't Cunningham win his title at 157?  That's two weight classes up from Brands.  Cunningham went from 142-157, but that was the year of the change, so it was really only going up 1 weight, especially since the year before they had a near year long 7lb weight allowance because of the weight cutting deaths.

If a weight is underrepresented among NCAA coaches it seems to be the big guys more than the little ones.  Nickerson, Jones, and Escobedo all competed in the lightest weight class.  Grey and  Scott wrestled in the second lightest weight class.  The only head coach that wrestled at 285 I think is Joel Greenlee.  Is he still on administrative leave? 

Well yes, but he went in weighing in two weight classes above the previous season, even if it was technically one weight.  Had Brands done the same he would have been a 149lber under today's rules.  Even with the current weight classes he would have been a 141lber.