Exculpatory Evidence

[Plasmodium]

I'm lost.

He entered the capitol through a broken door in order to stop the active, ongoing process to complete our nation's presidential election.    He used a megaphone to organize and encourage others to do the same.  He and the other insurrectionists were successful in suspending that process.  He plead guilty to that.  He was sentenced accordingly.  

Technically, there was a plea of guilty and not a conviction.  He adjudicated to the satisfaction of all.  What is the problem?

 

[VakAttack]

3 hours ago, El Luchador said:

Like I said, stop gap to limit liability.  

Again.  That's not how the system works. 

[El Luchador]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Again.  That's not how the system works. 

So you don't think political influence exists in the system? Ok I guess I'm ignorant. 

[VakAttack]

17 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

So you don't think political influence exists in the system? Ok I guess I'm ignorant. 

I didn't say that, but there are strict mechanisms, especially in federal court. There have to be hearings, motions filed, etc.  It's not just a judge watching Tucker Carlson and waving a hand.  There are people with life sentences that EVERYBODY knows are in the process of being overturned that still stay in prison for months and months until all the t's are crossed and i's dotted.

[mspart]

5 hours ago, El Luchador said:

Evidence was withheld, intentionally and illegally. 

This is also true.

mspart

[mspart]

Did the Shaman have a trial?  No.  He plead guilty is my understanding and was sentenced.   But the prosecution did not provide the video of him walking around the building with police officers showing him around.   He may have still pleaded guilty, but the prosecution did not provide what they were legally obliged to provide.  Or he may have plead not guilty and had a trial.   If it had been a trial and he had been found guilty, then this would be a no brainer.   The problem for him is the issue is that his attorney got him to plead guilty without knowledge of the video. 

mspart

[El Luchador]

57 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I didn't say that, but there are strict mechanisms, especially in federal court. There have to be hearings, motions filed, etc.  It's not just a judge watching Tucker Carlson and waving a hand.  There are people with life sentences that EVERYBODY knows are in the process of being overturned that still stay in prison for months and months until all the t's are crossed and i's dotted.

This was an illegal and malicious prosecution, motions have been filed and guilty people are trying to limit their damage.  Personal liability can be pursued when someone loses their qualified immunity. 

[El Luchador]

Just now, mspart said:

Did the Shaman have a trial?  No.  He plead guilty is my understanding and was sentenced.   But the prosecution did not provide the video of him walking around the building with police officers showing him around.   He may have still pleaded guilty, but the prosecution did not provide what they were legally obliged to provide.  Or he may have plead not guilty and had a trial.   If it had been a trial and he had been found guilty, then this would be a no brainer.   The problem for him is the issue is that his attorney got him to plead guilty without knowledge of the video. 

mspart

Claims made by the prosecution were probably false by the video evidence.  

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

This was an illegal and malicious prosecution, motions have been filed and guilty people are trying to limit their damage.  Personal liability can be pursued when someone loses their qualified immunity. 

Again, man, you are talking out of your ass.  Even if everything you said was true, which I'm not agreeing to, it would not be resolvedi n the way you are claiming this was resolved.  This would not be the first Brady violation in the history of criminal law.

[Plasmodium]

Dude literally says in open court that he is guilty and accepts the punishment of his plea deal.

Not good enough!!! 

[El Luchador]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Again, man, you are talking out of your ass.  Even if everything you said was true, which I'm not agreeing to, it would not be resolvedi n the way you are claiming this was resolved.  This would not be the first Brady violation in the history of criminal law.

Look who's involved.  That should tell you everything. The entire narrative is collapsing.  People are in a panic who are involved.  This isn't people who made mistakes,  it's people who committed fraud . This was engineered by very high up political people, and those who are going to take the fall are trying to limit the damages they are responsible for.  This isn't even  a matter of opinion.  This is a glaring act of an intentional Prosecutorial misconduct. You can bet people are using every connection available to distance themselves from this illegal act. Reports are already saying people involved are in a panic. 

[mspart]

1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Dude literally says in open court that he is guilty and accepts the punishment of his plea deal.

Not good enough!!! 

But he was not privy to everything the prosecutors had.   That is wrong.   Yes he did plead guilty, but would he have if he had that video footage?   And if not, would he have been convicted as the person the prosecution were going to paint him as?   These are all variables we don't know because he was not given due process. 

mspart

[El Luchador]

10 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Dude literally says in open court that he is guilty and accepts the punishment of his plea deal.

Not good enough!!! 

Because nobody was ever forced into a confession at the risk of the full force of the government coming down on them. Making accusations of illegal conduct while hiding evidence against your accusations is one of the protections we are afforded by the limits set on our government.  

Edited March 31, 2023 by El Luchador

[El Luchador]

2 minutes ago, mspart said:

But he was not privy to everything the prosecutors had.   That is wrong.   Yes he did plead guilty, but would he have if he had that video footage?   And if not, would he have been convicted as the person the prosecution were going to paint him as?   These are all variables we don't know because he was not given due process. 

mspart

Amazing how people will accept this when it's used against their political opposition. Certain actions should be viewed as absolute as the law has dictated they are. 

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Look who's involved.  That should tell you everything. The entire narrative is collapsing.  People are in a panic who are involved.  This isn't people who made mistakes,  it's people who committed fraud . This was engineered by very high up political people, and those who are going to take the fall are trying to limit the damages they are responsible for.  This isn't even  a matter of opinion.  This is a glaring act of an intentional Prosecutorial misconduct. You can bet people are using every connection available to distance themselves from this illegal act. Reports are already saying people involved are in a panic. 

You have literally not linked to a single "report."  You literally have his defense lawyer explaining to you that he's being released on schedule.  You have me, a criminal defense attorney, trying to explain to you how the system works.  If a person is falsely convicted, there is a process that goes into their release and getting them out of jail.  Even in highly public, highly covered situations.  Look at Adnan Syed who has way more name recognition than Jacob Chansley.  If there is a Brady violation, there is even MORE red tape, because a case doesn't automatically get thrown out due to a Brady violation, there have to be hearings to determine the validity of the evidence, whether it was purposely withheld, whether it's truly exculpatory, etc.  You're living in a fantasy land.

[Plasmodium]

1 minute ago, mspart said:

But he was not privy to everything the prosecutors had.   That is wrong.   Yes he did plead guilty, but would he have if he had that video footage?   And if not, would he have been convicted as the person the prosecution were going to paint him as?   These are all variables we don't know because he was not given due process. 

mspart

They have evidence of him actually committing the crime.  Court doesn't need to care what happened AFTER the crime was committed.  This is open and shut.  Dude is guilty.

OMG, crazy town.  I think we are witnessing the birth of a conspiracy theory.

[Le duke]

This is what I’m hearing:

Person A: Beats the shit out of Cop A
Cop B: Fears for his/her life, decides not to intervene with violent mob.

Random internet dude: Person A is innocent of beating up Cop A because Cop B didn’t do anything!

This is insane.


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[El Luchador]

7 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

They have evidence of him actually committing the crime.  Court doesn't need to care what happened AFTER the crime was committed.  This is open and shut.  Dude is guilty.

OMG, crazy town.  I think we are witnessing the birth of a conspiracy theory.

 

Just now, Le duke said:

This is what I’m hearing:

Person A: Bears the shit out of Cop A
Cop B: Fears for his/her life, decides not to intervene with violent mob.

Random internet dude: Person A is innocent of beating up Cop A because Cop B didn’t do anything!

This is insane.


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Not even close to what happened. 

[El Luchador]

24 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You have literally not linked to a single "report."  You literally have his defense lawyer explaining to you that he's being released on schedule.  You have me, a criminal defense attorney, trying to explain to you how the system works.  If a person is falsely convicted, there is a process that goes into their release and getting them out of jail.  Even in highly public, highly covered situations.  Look at Adnan Syed who has way more name recognition than Jacob Chansley.  If there is a Brady violation, there is even MORE red tape, because a case doesn't automatically get thrown out due to a Brady violation, there have to be hearings to determine the validity of the evidence, whether it was purposely withheld, whether it's truly exculpatory, etc.  You're living in a fantasy land.

Your understanding of the "system" is not wrong, but not complete.  Your lack of understanding of the influences of people within the system is evident.  Your lack of understanding of self preservation is almost laughable. This isn't an issue of a clerical error,  it's a criminal act.

Edited March 31, 2023 by El Luchador

[Le duke]

Your understanding of the "system" is not wrong, but not complete.  Your lack of understanding of the influences of people within the system is evident.  Your lack of understanding of self preservation is almost laughable. This isn't an issue of a clerical error,  it's a criminal act.

He’s a defense attorney, you clown.

You are the Dunning-Kruger effect, personified.


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[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, El Luchador said:

Your understanding of the "system" is not wrong, but not complete.  Your lack of understanding of the influences of people within the system is evident.  Your lack of understanding of self preservation is almost laughable. This isn't an issue of a clerical error,  it a criminal act.

My understanding of the system, as a person who actually works in and deals with the system on a day to day basis, is incomplete, but yours is fully realized?  Who are you? Collette Peters?

[El Luchador]

12 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

My understanding of the system, as a person who actually works in and deals with the system on a day to day basis, is incomplete, but yours is fully realized?  Who are you? Collette Peters?

I do have family on the other side of that on which you work, so I'm not void of knowledge.  You keep putting words in my mouth to use to make your point, but never seem to address the actual facts. The conversations I'm having is people need to be worried.  Now I'm saying those people are worried and this is the early reaction to that worry. The legal process is implemented and those who know they  f'ed up are going into damage control.  You can keep your head in the sand and see your side as the purveyors of truth and justice, but the tide is turning on the facts surrounding this. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by El Luchador

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

I do have family on the other side of that on which you work, so I'm not void of knowledge.  You keep putting words in my mouth to use to make your point, but never seem to address the actual facts. The conversations I'm having is people need to be worried.  Now I'm saying those people are worried and this is the early reaction to that worry. The legal process is implemented and those who know they  f'ed up are going into damage control.  You can keep your head in the sand and see your side as the purveyors of truth and justice, but the tide is turning on the facts surrounding this. 

My side?  Dude, I'm a defense attorney.  WTF are you even talking about?  I would be REPRESENTING Chansley in this scenario.

[El Luchador]

Just now, VakAttack said:

My side?  Dude, I'm a defense attorney.  WTF are you even talking about?  I would be REPRESENTING Chansley in this scenario.

You're not able to see the truth through your bias. What would be the opposite side of you?

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, El Luchador said:

You're not able to see the truth through your bias. What would be the opposite side of you?

You just saying "the truth" without any evidence while also lecturing me on how things work in the FIELD THAT I WORK EVERY DAY is truly, truly incredible.