Seriously, Michigan?

[Mike Parrish]

Ultimately, it's a judgement call.

[scourge165]

10 hours ago, El Luchador said:

You're wrong again

 

V.P. BIDEN: Well, the way in which we measure it is–I think most scholars would say–is that as long as you have a weapon sufficient to be able to provide your self-defense. I did one of these town-hall meetings on the Internet and one guy said, “Well, what happens when the end days come? What happens when there’s the earthquake? I live in California, and I have to protect myself.”

I said, “Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door.” Most people can handle a shotgun a hell of a lot better than they can a semiautomatic weapon in terms of both their aim and in terms of their ability to deter people coming. We can argue whether that’s true or not, but it is no argument that, for example, a shotgun could do the same job of protecting you. Now, granted, you can come back and say, “Well, a machine gun could do a better job of protecting me.” No one’s arguing we should make machine guns legal.

Yup! I'm wrong. I only POSTED THE F'CKN VIDEO OF HIM!!!

Literally...I posted the VIDEO of what he said, pointed out the intellectual dishonesty and you STILL come back with "you're wrong."

I'm sorry, sometimes you come across a particular brand of stoopid that cannot be fixed. 

[scourge165]

11 hours ago, Nailbender said:

Some of the actual stupidity in these posts actually hurts my feelings. Your long winded responses that have very little thought put into them if not so scary, would be funny. I reacted to your first one that way and then couldn't believe it got worse from there.

 

I've learned my lesson with you and shouldn't respond. I'll try and leave the rest of your ignorance for someone else to clean up.

Washington examiner

US News and World Report

Snopes for goodness sakes

 

 

 

  ETA Joe Biden is an idiot and he must be your king. Shooting blindly through a door is some of the worst advice I've ever seen. It's a good way to change self defense into murder. Maybe even the murder of someone you love.

Yeah...again, IT'S RIGHT IN THE VIDEO. 

Intellectual dishonesty. It's about 40 seconds in. If you don't have 40 seconds, I can't be bothered with you. 

Biden never said fired blindly through a door if you hear something...you're full of shit. 

Screw it, I took away the first 40 seconds because I don't know that your attention span can handle it. 

----Now...if you believe THIS is him saying "shoot blindly through the door," you're not acting, you really are just not very bright.

 

 

[Plasmodium]

22 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah...again, IT'S RIGHT IN THE VIDEO. 

Intellectual dishonesty. It's about 40 seconds in. If you don't have 40 seconds, I can't be bothered with you. 

Biden never said fired blindly through a door if you hear something...you're full of shit. 

Screw it, I took away the first 40 seconds because I don't know that your attention span can handle it. 

----Now...if you believe THIS is him saying "shoot blindly through the door," you're not acting, you really are just not very bright.

 

 

@El Luchador @Nailbender - This video is where you two get Biden's recommendation to shoot wildly?

[Nailbender]

25 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah...again, IT'S RIGHT IN THE VIDEO. 

Intellectual dishonesty. It's about 40 seconds in. If you don't have 40 seconds, I can't be bothered with you. 

Biden never said fired blindly through a door if you hear something...you're full of shit. 

Screw it, I took away the first 40 seconds because I don't know that your attention span can handle it. 

----Now...if you believe THIS is him saying "shoot blindly through the door," you're not acting, you really are just not very bright.

 

 

Your video is a completely different stupid conversation of Biden's.

I provided not one, not two but three links showing the quote I provided as absolutely accurate. Including a fact check. You can show yourself out.

 

[Nailbender]

11 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

@El Luchador @Nailbender - This video is where you two get Biden's recommendation to shoot wildly?

No. Again, I provided 3 links including a fact check. How do either of you two expect me to take anything you say seriously, if this simple thing is this hard for you?

It's easily Googleable, if you don't like my links. This is not rocket surgery.

[Plasmodium]

1 minute ago, Nailbender said:

No. Again, I provided 3 links including a fact check. How do either of you two expect me to take anything you say seriously, if this simple thing is this hard for you?

It's easily Googleable, if you don't like my links. This is not rocket surgery.

So you can answer questions!

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Man...so disappointed as you started off commenting and seemed to be level-headed and someone who could add to this debate but then you dropped this gem..."GOP hadn't kinda stolen SCOTUS" .

Well...as distraught as I am, here are the facts. 

1 year left in office for Reagan;

Dems approve Kennedy

~1 year left in office for Obama
-Republicans say Obama will NEVER nominate a moderate and LITERALLY cite Merrick Garland an example.
-Republicans say the voters should pick the next Supreme Court nominee and that if the situation was reversed, the Republicans would NOT fill a seat and you can use those words and call him on it in the future.

McConnel also makes the false claim that they haven't seated a SCOTUS nominee in an election year for 130 years. Again, bullshit, they did it for Reagan. 

-WHILE VOTES are being cast...McConnel shows his ass and does the thing he says you don't do. 

So to recap, Obama nominates a moderate, one the Republicans had LITERALLY campaigned for and suggested.
--Republicans say "no, it's an election year," despite Obama having nearly a full year left in his term and they say;

Quote

“I want you to use my words against me,” the South Carolina Republican said. “If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said, ‘Let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination.’”

Then ~40 days before the election while people are voting Ginsberg dies and the Republicans nominate Barrett. 

Sorry, just using his words against him. He's the one who asked me to do it. If you're disappointed...well, again, I'll find a way to pick up the pieces and move on.

 

Now, this wouldn't all have impacted the Heller case, but partisan nominations did. A 5-4 ruling(see Gore v Bush). Where Gore CLEARLY got more votes in Florida, but they made a one time ruling that someone wasn't precedent setting because it was too late to count all the votes in an election Gore SOOO clearly won. 

 

 

[Nailbender]

2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

So you can answer questions!

I answered your question. Then I linked to my answer.

I posted a quote. Then I posted links backing it up.

Now with a simple Google search I have a link to the original interview with Biden that @El LuchadorLuchador already posted.

Field and Stream interview

 

Conversations shouldn't be this hard. I still haven't got an answer from you. I don't even care now. Your opinion is no longer important to me. Take care.

[Nailbender]

3 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

Ultimately, it's a judgement call.

I'm starting to come around.

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Anyway, I think you missed my point...well know you missed it...the constitution is being interpreted by HUMANS!  Fallible and flawed humans with biases, narratives, and other influences.  But the overall principals and concepts hold true today.  And the people that wrote the constitution were flawed as well (YOU brought up slavery), but again the overall principals and concepts are what set us apart as a country.

Ok...that's not NEARLY the same as;

Quote

 My point is you can't pick and choose what works and what doesn't work (constitution) when it ALL worked together in order to make us the best country and most free country in the world.  

It seems like you made a VERY poorly worded argument as these two...they don't mesh AT ALL. You said you can't pick and choose and the ONE fundamental truth of the constitution...is that you CAN in fact pick and choose. We wouldn't have a free nation today if you couldn't. 

The United States was ONE ballot printing error(when they put Pat Buchannan's vote right next to Gore's in the HEAVILY leaning Miami Dade where BUCHANNAN was the one who said the votes were "obviously meant for Gore," or just all the nonsense that went on with the Bush-Gore election. THAT is how close we were to having the Heller care fundamentally change Gun ownership and literally require you to be a member of a militia to be able to own any type of gun you wanted. 

It would have been a great thing. Not because it would have taken all guns away, but because then, it would have forced a LOGICAL discussion on Gun ownership, extended mags, bump stocks, private sales or the gun show loophole, open carry, conceal carry. It should be a bit tougher to buy a handgun than it is to go on Facebook market place and buy a used Refrigerators(by the way, just got an incredible deal...old guy, moving, sold me a 3 year old monster top bottom and an LG Washer and Dryer set that was less than a year old...all he wanted was for me to take them out of his house! Gave him 100 bucks because...C'mon, 3,000 dollars worth of shit!...really is the greatest Country in the world!)

My awesome little story aside, it should be harder to buy that Gun. 

I'm absolutely NOT against having guns. In fact, as I said, I own 36 myself. I also grew up with Cops(two different Uncles who were firearm instructors) one who was in the FBI...basically, a whole family that was law Enforcement teaching me how to be smart and careful with guns.

The class I took for my Conceal Carry...was a JOKE.

 

 

The very fact that Nailbender thought it SOOO outrageous that you be required to take classes before you're allowed to own a gun as you would to own a Car(he's the one who brought up driving for the record) it shows how...careless we are on this issue. 

 

10 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

 

I'll leave the private prison conversation for a different time

Sure. I'd hope there wouldn't require much conversation. They're ridiculous. They incentivize incarceration, abuse and the lack of oversight is...appalling. If it was just child molesters, fine, but it's not. So any reasonable person who's pro-private prison, I probably wouldn't respect. So I need to assume you find them to be abhorrent as I do.

10 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Australia and their gun laws...I'll start by the glaring inaccuracy...or I should say INCOMPLETE thought and analysis done by you.  Their gun laws are not the one solution that sets them apart from us in terms of less "mass shootings" (quotes were not meant as a way to minimize them in any way).  This is a talking point often used by those that want to limit law abiding citizens in the US.  Astralia has a completely different culture, history, sociatal norms, constitution (or whatever them call it there), etc. than the US.  Taking on law and trying to make it stand on its own to push your point and narrative is...well...silly really.  The problem is people like Plasmodium and Mikey boy jump up and down in your corner pointing and saying "SEE!!  SEE!!!"  It is comical really.  

I was waiting for a point and...I don't think I ever found one.

Nailbender I believe(or maybe it was you, but I believe it was Nailbender)...made a statement of FACT that there is ZERO empirical evidence that ANY type of Gun Control has EVER had an impact on the number of shootings. 

I used an example. 

NOW in the NEVER-ENDING moving goalposts, it's "Australia is different." Well no shit. The United States is about the size of Europe and almost as diverse in it's politics and culture. San Fran is about as different as Rural Texas or NYC and Montana. 

The POINT remains he argued there's ZERO evidence that gun laws have ever impacted gun deaths. He was wrong. He was far more wrong than just using Australia as an example, but that was the most obvious.

 

I'm also no longer entertaining people who complain about embryo's being aborted when they see a classroom of 20 kids massacred and then don't think there's a SINGLE reasonable gun law that should be enacted to try and MAYBE see if we can stop that.

10 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

 

For the millionth time, I will say again, if any sort of gun ban, gun registry, limiting law abiding citizens 2nd amendment rights would stop school shootings, or the crazy MF'er in Vegas I would be first to vote for it...but 99.9% of the time those legislations are not well thought out, purely written with only emotion and no logic, contain no correlative data, and hence don't and won't ever get passed.  You want real change, stop trumpeting (no pun intended) the talking points you hear in the media, start thinking through the full issue and start demanding more from the stupid politicians you support.

You said nothing here. "If I thought it would change, I'd support it."

What 99.99 pct of the time?

And please, if ANYONE doesn't get to take the "parroting talking points," line, it's you. 

The ONLY thing you missed was "a good guy with a gun."

AGAIN, I'll cite this sentence that I just didn't understand! Not that it was vague!

My point is you can't pick and choose what works and what doesn't work (constitution) when it ALL worked together in order to make us the best country and most free country in the world.  

 

Quote

I would be first to vote for it

Oh, and the gun laws "only stop the good guys with the guns," nonsense.

Yes...but you WOULDN'T be. You're not even open to ANY gun laws...because, after all you can't "pick and choose," what works and what doesn't because...the Constitution! 

 

It's comical that one SIDE finds it so comical that you should require handguns and semi-auto' be registered, that you should be required to take classes so you know how to operate them. I mean, forget cars, YOU HAVE TO DO IT WITH BOATS! 

That you can't just sell a gun to anyone with cash. Again, can't do that with Cars either...UNLESS you register them. 

And yeah, I think you should also be required to have a ballistics tests on record for every gun ever sold...JUST like Law Enforcement does...so you can trade each murder back to a gun. To who originally purchased that gun, to who they sold it to.

 

[scourge165]

12 hours ago, jross said:

 

 

Gun violence is bad.  But where does it fit in the priority of the underlying cause of death? 

Across age groups, firearm assault is #49 in the CDC and #50 if CDC included the 1 million elective abortions.  (See 2019 data in https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D76).

 

I have no problem talking about gun violence and reducing it.  I just want to understand why #50 is a higher priority for discussion.

Because of the kids.  Which kids?  Not the 1 million aborted unborn.  No, no, no, not them.  They aren't people (sarcasm).

 

How about ages 1-4?  Talk about drowning #1 or firearm assault at #12


 

Ages 5-14.  Now we are talking.  Ban the ropes so these kids stop hanging themselves.  Ban the cars.  Firearm assault checks in at #3.  We can talk about it now.

 

Ages 15-17.  Now we're talking about firearm assault.

 

Let's double-click into firearms.  Those pesky 15-year-olds and older are a nuisance.  

The age group death by firearm stays in the 400s through the 20s, drops to 200s in the 30s, and continues to decrease with age.  

Across age groups, data shows gun violence is rare outside known street blocks in cities with extreme poverty. 

School shooting deaths are horrible and rare.  The worst school shooting year was in 2018 with 51 deaths.  Typically average of 12 a year.  Handguns are used 10:1 over rifles, and more than 50% occur outside rather than inside the school.

There was a recent school shooting (ghost handgun) local to me by a kid previously busted for a robbery... my HS daughter knows kids at the school... yet my family has zero fear of a school shooting.

I'll never understand this logic.

Because there are OTHER dangerous things that you CAN'T do anything about(drowning/accidental death) then...why bother trying to do anything about Guns?

We put lifeguard at pools. We mandated that. 
We force kids to take boaters safety classes because there were accidents on the lakes.
We just overturned Roe V Wade and made a 10 year old girl from Ohio travel to another state while Jordan called her a liar or a hoax(without ever apologizing). 

 

We generally do BASIC shit. This is so silly. 

My good friend blew his 6 year old brothers head off when he was 9 years old because his Father was a moron who left his guns out. So I DO have fear of irresponsible gun owners. People who have NEVER taken a class and can't be bothered to lock it.

 

 

How about this...explain to me WHY the NRA fought SOOO  hard against SMART GUNS!?!

Now tell me it's not all about money and profits. Smith and Wesson, the company who first started and tried to create the smart gun KNEW it'd hurt their sales and still moved forward. But a gun that only the owner can use is SO objectionable, we needed to legislate against THAT? C'mon...

[jross]

Cut your words by 70%.  Try to stick to one topic per post.  Nobody cares what you say when there is constant emotion and personal attack.  

[jross]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I'll never understand this logic.

I support gun restrictions.  I don’t understand why folks get more worked up over it than what the data says is a larger problem.  

[Nailbender]

https://youtu.be/zrWoG8IckyE

[Nailbender]

5 minutes ago, jross said:

I support gun restrictions.  I don’t understand why folks get more worked up over it than what the data says is a larger problem.  

I have felt most of your responses were rational and well thought out. My problems with anything you have said has more to do with the idea that I see this problem as much more complicated than just guns. Some people here are simple. You're not one of them.

 

ETA Not that you're seeking my approval 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Nailbender

[scourge165]

13 hours ago, Nailbender said:

Some of the actual stupidity in these posts actually hurts my feelings. Your long winded responses that have very little thought put into them if not so scary, would be funny. I reacted to your first one that way and then couldn't believe it got worse from there.

 

I've learned my lesson with you and shouldn't respond. I'll try and leave the rest of your ignorance for someone else to clean up.

Washington examiner

US News and World Report

Snopes for goodness sakes

 

 

 

  ETA Joe Biden is an idiot and he must be your king. Shooting blindly through a door is some of the worst advice I've ever seen. It's a good way to change self defense into murder. Maybe even the murder of someone you love.

You don't even read the shit you post, do you?

 

IT' LITERALLY THE SAME QUOTE!!!

From YOUR post;

Quote

“If there’s ever a problem,” Biden said he told his wife, “just walk out on the balcony here— walk out, put that double barrel shot gun and fire two blasts outside the house.”

It's like you're not smart enough to understand they're taking the VIDEO of his ACTUAL words and then breaking them down.

He didn't say shoot blindly through a door. 

Every one WALK OUT ONTO THE BALCONY!!!

 

LOL...you really don't know what you're talking about AT ALL, do you? I posted his ACTUAL WORDS. You posted News articles picking apart his words because like I said, it's the intellectually lazy argument.

Though, to be fair, I may be giving you too much credit. Maybe it's not intellectually dishonest. Maybe you're just...not capable of understanding what you're attempting to quote. 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Nailbender said:

No. Again, I provided 3 links including a fact check. How do either of you two expect me to take anything you say seriously, if this simple thing is this hard for you?

It's easily Googleable, if you don't like my links. This is not rocket surgery.

LOL...you provided 3 links.

They ALL quoted the video that I provided.

"Step out on the balcony." Not "shoot through your door." 

 

You're clearly posting links that you don't read or understand.

[scourge165]

23 minutes ago, jross said:

Cut your words by 70%.  Try to stick to one topic per post.  Nobody cares what you say when there is constant emotion and personal attack.  

I'll post as long as I choose to and address each point.

 

It's generally not as simple as Nailbender's "nuh-uh," level arguments or posting links that he hasn't bothered reading. 

If it's too long for people to read, oh well. 

And I've got no time for complaints about personal attacks on THIS forum. 

I had less than ~10 posts when there was an abortion thread that was exclusively emotional and every posts involved personal attacks unless you exhibited complete and absolute capitulation. 

 

By the way, this is how this thread started;

Quote

You re-elect the moat evil cunt in the history of Michigan governors?

Quote

 

You're comparing deaf people, to someone who has no clue what he's talking about?  Come on, that's a pathetic comparison.  Did you watch his debate with Oz?  I felt sorry for him, it was sad.  Sad that his wife is making him do this, and putting him through this humiliation.  She's a real piece of work

And put aside his brain damage - his policy positions are terrible.  And his history as a mayor and Lt Governor are god awful as well.  He's literally one of the worst humans ever on a ballot.  

 

 

So...again, please spare me the righteous indignation about the posts being too mean.

Edited February 3, 2023 by scourge165

[Nailbender]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

LOL...you provided 3 links.

They ALL quoted the video that I provided.

"Step out on the balcony." Not "shoot through your door." 

 

You're clearly posting links that you don't read or understand.

 

[Nailbender]

You have got to be trolling at this point. No one can be this dense.

[Nailbender]

I'd post the other two but people will see you for what you are. I won't hold my breath for the apology or anything smarter to ever leave your keyboard.

[scourge165]

Just now, Nailbender said:

 

Oh...this is just sad. 

FROM-YOUR-OWN-LINK...

Quote

“If there’s ever a problem,” Biden said he told his wife, “just walk out on the balcony here— walk out, put that double barrel shot gun and fire two blasts outside the house.”

You just can't fix stoopid.

His actual words...verbatim. 

YOUR OWN link...and you're like a child with fingers in your ears yelling, "nanananananana....CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

 

 

[jross]

Be brief but comprehensive.  You can address all your concerns in half the words and have more clarity.  Concise.

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, Nailbender said:

You have got to be trolling at this point. No one can be this dense.

The irony of this statement is just too rich.

I quoted your own posts and you still don't understand, it's from the SAME video.

He never said to blindly shoot through the door.

He said step out on the balcony. 

 

You didn't read your own link and you're not big enough to concede that point now.