EIWA PRE-Seeds

[D3 for LU]

For all those high ranked studs that would win, regardless of wherever they're seeded, it's not a problem.

For others... seeding is everything from placing them in the opposite bracket from where the studs are placed.

Ex.: On the LEHIGH side of the ledger, please note McGonangle @ 133 (Arujau) and Brignola @ 149 (Yianni)... yeah, woopie!

D3

[D3 for LU]

25 minutes ago, D3 for LU said:

For all those high ranked studs that would win, regardless of wherever they're seeded, it's not a problem.

For others... seeding is everything from placing them in the opposite bracket from where the studs are placed.

Ex.: On the LEHIGH side of the ledger, please note McGonagle @ 133 (Arujau) and Brignola @ 149 (Yianni)... yeah, woopie!

D3

Before some of you get your panties in a bunch over spelling names... 

(Yeah, I missed the editing deadline.)

D3

Edited March 2, 2023 by D3 for LU

[Red Blades]

48 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

 

It would reduce ducking if that’s how they seeded ncaas but all this does is hurt guys at smaller schools in weight classes that don’t have many AQ spots 

How exactly does it do that?  

[Antitroll2828]

45 minutes ago, Red Blades said:

How exactly does it do that?  

Another poster just pointed this out above, but 149 as example only has 2 AQ with no true second , so now that yianni is the 2 seed ( which is insane no matter what point you re trying to make) and now the 3 seed ( and 6/7 seeds ) have no real shot of qualifying…putting yianni as the 2 in EIWA does nothing to stop ducking and will only hurt lower seeded guys 

[Red Blades]

39 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Another poster just pointed this out above, but 149 as example only has 2 AQ with no true second , so now that yianni is the 2 seed ( which is insane no matter what point you re trying to make) and now the 3 seed ( and 6/7 seeds ) have no real shot of qualifying…putting yianni as the 2 in EIWA does nothing to stop ducking and will only hurt lower seeded guys 

OK, as far as Brignola having lesser chances facing Yianni than he might have facing Zopf - I would agree.  But to generalize that into "hurting guys at smaller schools", well, I hardly consider Lehigh a "small school", at least in terms of wrestling stature (although some might argue that point in recent years).  But also, Brignola lost to Zapf already (11-4, a point short of a major), so the degree of difference here goes from slim to almost none.  More to the point - Brignola has a 62% winning percentage.  There may be quite a few others more deserving of that at large qualifying slot.

As for 125 - the bigger mystery there is not so much Unger getting the 1 seed (well, OK, that is BIG a mystery!), as much as how did Bailey, who is ranked higher, end up seeded behind 8. Max Leelee, American and 9. Micah Roes, Binghamton?  Flip one or two of those places, and I think Bailey fans would be happier; but in this case, I think the seeding process used has actually helped the wrestlers from the smaller, lesser-known programs (which I suspect is in part the intent of the process used).  Bailey is hurt here by his own lack of record - he's only listed at 7-9 (less than 50%) so how do you argue that he deserves a spot anyhow?  And with 6 AQ slots at this weight available - if Bailey really deserves one of them, he's got plenty of opportunity to wrestle his way in (even though he did not earn an AQ slot for the conference).

So while I get that the seeding IS way off in some instances, and I would certainly like to see some kind of appeal process to re-adjust by the "eye test" (whatever THAT might be ), on the whole I don't share the same level of outrage over lesser ranked or less prominent wrestlers/programs being hurt.  On the other hand - it seems the guys who benefit most from this process are the guys who wrestled a full schedule, and especially a full conference schedule - so count me among the fans in favor of the process.

STOP THE DUCK!

Edited March 2, 2023 by Red Blades
spelling

[Voice of the Quakers]

On 2/28/2023 at 4:25 PM, Voice of the Quakers said:

I'm guessing this is a points based system and that obvious errors - Yianni did beat Zapf in the dual - will be fixed.

So, the answer is pettiness. 

There are reasons I don't miss being involved as closely with college sports as much as I used to be...

You may be asking, is there any way to overrule the seeds, since this is a calculation done via computer with very little common sense? The answer is "yes, of course!" Without giving away all of the details, there is a way to "challenge" a seed if within a certain number of seeding points to the wrestler above. Because Yianni and Glory were outside of this threshold, there is one final step in the process to get the final seeds "correct." The EIWA calls it the outlier rule. When Glory's 2nd seed was challenged as an outlier (but still outside of that challengeable criteria), 13 of the 17 (75%) coaches needed to vote yes to overturn and give him the top seed. It only took five votes to block these challenges from happening. The same situation occurred for Yianni's seed at 149 lbs.

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26547

[D3 for LU]

With Ungar "nabbing" the 1st seed, I don't see too much protestations over on the Big Red side of the fence, yes? 

Meanwhile, Glory (after he survive the weigh-ins) will pretty much devour his side of the bracket.

Then, I'll pity whomever will face him w/ a full meal in his stomach come Sunday afternoon!

D3

[Red Blades]

6 hours ago, D3 for LU said:

With Ungar "nabbing" the 1st seed, I don't see too much protestations over on the Big Red side of the fence, yes? 

Meanwhile, Glory (after he survive the weigh-ins) will pretty much devour his side of the bracket.

Then, I'll pity whomever will face him w/ a full meal in his stomach come Sunday afternoon!

D3

Lost in all the fuss over the top seeds, Brendan Furman is seeded 9th at 285, considerably lower than his EIWA average ranking would have put him (6th), and puts him against the 1 seed in the quarters IF he gets past the 8th seed Knighton-Ward in the first round (Furman was also at a disadvantage due to only wrestling part of the season, as Fernandes was originally the starter)  So yes, the system works against Cornell in some cases, and at 285 could cost them potential team points or even a qualifying slot.

As for Ungar - there is no figuring him seeded over Glory, but past that, seeding the next 4 at 125 could pretty much be a random draw, and Ungar still has to get past quarters and semis to even face Glory.  If seeding holds, he gets Sotelo of Harvard in the semis - no easy task, nor would be Babin from Columbia.

I think the Big Red fans figure - sometimes the Seeding gods giveth, and sometimes they taketh; but the gods of War and Thunder are the ones that matter most.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Red Blades

[D3 for LU]

ANNNNNNNNNNNNND the Big Red will win anyway... so let's call the whole think off ( toMAYto, toMATo. )

(Well, let's watch the EIWA's at any rate, and enjoy the show, yes?  )

cheers, RB! 

D3

Edited March 3, 2023 by D3 for LU

[Red Blades]

It's interesting to go back to Bracketbuster's earlier post (Feb 20) where he rolled out his interactive bracket for EIWA's prior to the preseeds being announced: 

EIWA Projected Seeds/Interactive Bracket - College Wrestling - Intermat Forums

His initial seeding assumption was pretty close to the latest EIWA rankings at the time - which is essentially a composite average of several ranking services.  Under the actual preseeds, Cornell actually loses 4.5 placement points, but Lehigh loses quite a lot - Penn is the big beneficiary, going from 105 placement points up to 114.  Lehigh and Penn essentially flip points.  Ivy conspiracy?

I think many (myself included) would have preferred we just let Bracketbuster seed the tournament.

Of course - the wrestlers still have to wrestle to earn their points.

May the odds be ever in their favor.

 

[lu_alum]

1 hour ago, Red Blades said:

Penn is the big beneficiary, going from 105 placement points up to 114.  Lehigh and Penn essentially flip points.  Ivy conspiracy?

Ah yes... the Ivy Mob.  Why don't we just bring back the days of conference Wild Card bids and back room deliberations about who gets the final few spots to go to NCAAs?

[D3 for LU]

The Hunger Games reference, RB... really?

(If any of the Sacred Heart or Long Island U wrestlers start flashing that salute this weekend, all bets are off!)

D3

[Red Blades]

4 hours ago, lu_alum said:

Ah yes... the Ivy Mob.  Why don't we just bring back the days of conference Wild Card bids and back room deliberations about who gets the final few spots to go to NCAAs?

there you go - that explains why the current system is a strictly objective mathematical point system.

[ionel]

17 minutes ago, Red Blades said:

there you go - that explains why the current system is a strictly objective mathematical point system.

Sounds like:

The Mob vs Wkn

I'd go with Wkn every day of the week and twice on Saturday/Sunday.   

[bracketbuster]

8 hours ago, Red Blades said:

I think many (myself included) would have preferred we just let Bracketbuster seed the tournament.

Of course - the wrestlers still have to wrestle to earn their points.

May the odds be ever in their favor.

 

I am sure I would have had my detractors as well but I appreciate the kind words. I guess starting tomorrow though, it really doesn't matter what I or anybody else things. The brackets are what they are and the everybody has to toe the line.