Interesting perspective

[whaletail]

18 hours ago, jross said:

Okay so I'll assume you are correct because our government does stupid things no matter who is in charge.

Lying about what occurred - Yep.

Voting records? - Depends. There is no problem with knowing if I voted, just who I voted for. I would welcome the gov to audit my state to identify illegals, dead people, etc. for criminal voting. I'm dissapointed if audits are NOT occurring... Fraud could happen with the opposition not following the voter ID requirement, and certainly with mail in voting. 

Gov controlling treatments? - Definitely not always but it can be.

What is the context for woman to register they are pregnant?

Having to prove miscarriage is not an abortion? - Yep

There is nothing embarrassing about protecting children from topics better left to parents than schools. Its rather embarrassing to think the school has a mandate to teach taboo topics. Topics at the right time, with informed parent consent... I need to think deeper about how the government controlling the government is an Orwell concern. I can't think the majority of parents wants the government teaching their kids the content banned in books. And I suspect these banned books are easily available to most outside of schools. Or keep them in school, in a locked room, where only kids with parent permission can go grab. Silly short-sighted idea but you get the idea.

Flock and facial recognition, etc. and so on. Yep.

From your responses, I think we're simply judging the government, and the decisions made  - during, and in the wake of a lengthy existential crisis - differently.

I'm not a physician, nor epidemiologist, so I'm not sure what would have happened in the absence of specific policies, but reviewing the sort of decidions that had to made in real time, usually with imperfect, less than unequivocal evidence, I give those who had to make them some leeway.

Ultimately, I simply haven't seen evidence suggesting decisions like mask mandates, vaccination mandates, social distancing etc. were about establishing, exercising, or maintaining the power typically associated with Orwellian policies.

Hopefully, when the dust has settled, I hope there's some sort of useful bipartisan, or even non-governmental, investiagtion of the decisions made during covid. Not to malign, or disparage the legacy of those who made them, but simply as a means to make the best decsions available in future crises.

Finally, I view many of the non-covid policies I mentioned as Orwellian because I think they were very much intended to either intimidate the citizenry into complying with illegal/corrupt policies, or to strengthen their own political power no matter the cost.

I should note that I found it revolting when Biden and his closest colleagues tried to hide his advancing dementia from the public. I suspect it was largely due to misplaced ego (I'm the only one who can save America, even if I'm a drooling vegetable), but goddamn did we pay a price for that chit.

I also happy to see the election unfold peacefully, without attempts to pass the SAVE Act, or excessive voter intimidation. That the results were so overwhelming probably precluded any "stolen election"  arguments, but I was still glad no one seems to be trying to advance that narrative.

[jross]

37 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I'm not a physician, nor epidemiologist, so I'm not sure what would have happened in the absence of specific policies, but reviewing the sort of decidions that had to made in real time, usually with imperfect, less than unequivocal evidence, I give those who had to make them some leeway.

You are not a mathematician yet you have confidence that 2 + 2 is 4.  The issue was not that officials made honest mistakes with bad data. The issue is that officials purposely hid facts, changed public messaging while privately admitting the opposite, and used government power to silence top scientists who disagreed with them.

Edit: This was known VERY early!  It's not nit picking years after...

Edit 2: The government using its power to create its own reality and crush the truth and to crush who speaks it is Orwell.  Minimally to protect their reputation/ego... possibly for worse reasons.

 

Edited yesterday at 03:56 PM by jross

[Offthemat]

[jross]

By March/April of 2020, scientists had already shared the risk was largely the elderly and people already very sick.  This was suppressed for 2 years because the healthy wouldn't comply with the shutdowns, mandates, etc.   

The government purposely lied initially (like Feb 2020) that masks are not effective to prevent people from buying masks.  Then we people were told we must wear masks to save lives, even cloth masks (that anyone who coughed knew did little).  A couple years later "new data" reveals if we wear the right type of mask and don't reuse it, they help.  But we are too human to use them appropriately so they are realisticaly ineffective.

The government purposely Orwelled the Barrington Declaration and those involved with it in October of 2020.

Vaccine adverse effects were known a few months after the rollout in Aprl/May 2021.  Squashed for a year.

Ineffectiveness of the vaccine was known in July 2021.  Squashed for a bit but CDC acknowledge it while continuning to mandate vaccines throughout 2022 lying it would protect others.

What am I missing?  Probably the covid origination suppression...

Why was the public Orwelled?  Besides dark triad traits and reputation... greed! 

Edit: Known to the public following experts on twitter and podcasts before their content was canned.  Still known even on our wrestling forums to anyone willing to watch the evidence posted and who validated the public data (VAERs, CDC) themself.  But unknown to anyone listening to mainstream news AND in their ears-plugged bubble.

Edited yesterday at 04:53 PM by jross

[Doublehalf]

3 hours ago, jross said:

That your first sentence doesn’t say “I was using my lizard brain and apologize” says much about your character.

Whatever helps you sleep at night 

[jross]

33 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

Whatever helps you sleep at night 

Your leap from "he criticizes" and "therefore is racist" is what helps you sleep at night.  That type of lazy thinking if what keeps me from sleeping.

[red viking]

1 hour ago, jross said:

By March/April of 2020, scientists had already shared the risk was largely the elderly and people already very sick.  This was suppressed for 2 years because the healthy wouldn't comply with the shutdowns, mandates, etc.   

The government purposely lied initially (like Feb 2020) that masks are not effective to prevent people from buying masks.  Then we people were told we must wear masks to save lives, even cloth masks (that anyone who coughed knew did little).  A couple years later "new data" reveals if we wear the right type of mask and don't reuse it, they help.  But we are too human to use them appropriately so they are realisticaly ineffective.

The government purposely Orwelled the Barrington Declaration and those involved with it in October of 2020.

Vaccine adverse effects were known a few months after the rollout in Aprl/May 2021.  Squashed for a year.

Ineffectiveness of the vaccine was known in July 2021.  Squashed for a bit but CDC acknowledge it while continuning to mandate vaccines throughout 2022 lying it would protect others.

What am I missing?  Probably the covid origination suppression...

Why was the public Orwelled?  Besides dark triad traits and reputation... greed! 

Edit: Known to the public following experts on twitter and podcasts before their content was canned.  Still known even on our wrestling forums to anyone willing to watch the evidence posted and who validated the public data (VAERs, CDC) themself.  But unknown to anyone listening to mainstream news AND in their ears-plugged bubble.

Lots of Monday morning QBing here. We had limited information at the time on a new, deadly for many, virus that was rapidly spreading. Hence the very cautious approach that almost always looks overcautious in retrospect in situations like this, after additional info is obtained. 

[Doublehalf]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

Your leap from "he criticizes" and "therefore is racist" is what helps you sleep at night.  That type of lazy thinking if what keeps me from sleeping.

You said "I'm a bigot for traditional thoughts"

Can you enlighten us to these traditional thoughts in which you feel labeled you a bigot? 

[Scouts Honor]

6 hours ago, red viking said:

Lots of Monday morning QBing here. We had limited information at the time on a new, deadly for many, virus that was rapidly spreading. Hence the very cautious approach that almost always looks overcautious in retrospect in situations like this, after additional info is obtained. 

he just told you they knew.

it wasn't limited. they knew.

they withheld it.

[red viking]

31 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

he just told you they knew.

it wasn't limited. they knew.

they withheld it.

Thats a lie. What exactly did they 100% know that they hid? 

Edited 19 hours ago by red viking

[Gene Mills Fan]

12 hours ago, red viking said:

Thats a lie. What exactly did they 100% know that they hid? 

1. young people don't need to quarantine!  2. Young people are subject to myocardia from the vaccine. 

3. Masks and 6 feet is unpreventative.

[Scouts Honor]

13 hours ago, red viking said:

Thats a lie. What exactly did they 100% know that they hid? 

re read his post.

i know thats hard 

but you can do it

try buddy try

[Doublehalf]

2 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

1. young people don't need to quarantine!  2. Young people are subject to myocardia from the vaccine. 

3. Masks and 6 feet is unpreventative.

1. Young people could still carry the virus and infect vulnerable populations which stresses the healthcare system when there was already nursing shortages and lack of bed availability 

2. I believe it was proven more young people were subject to contracting myocarditis from Covid than the limited numbers of cases found after taking a vaccine. Myocarditis is most often caused by viral and bacterial infections. 
 

3. If masks don't help with spreading bacteria/virus' why are they worn in every single operating room across the world every day when sterility is of the upmost importance? Standing 6 feet away is the most minor inconvenience I can possibly think of... I actually didn't mind not having people right on top of me for a while there. 
 

Next time you go to get surgery, right before you are put under anesthesia, ask your doc's to take off their surgical masks because there is zero benefit or chance you will contract any infections...

Your talking points are literally the poster child of a dumb citizen not using critical thinking or listening to clinically proven facts.

[Gene Mills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

1. Young people could still carry the virus and infect vulnerable populations which stresses the healthcare system when there was already nursing shortages and lack of bed availability 

2. I believe it was proven more young people were subject to contracting myocarditis from Covid than the limited numbers of cases found after taking a vaccine. Myocarditis is most often caused by viral and bacterial infections. 
 

3. If masks don't help with spreading bacteria/virus' why are they worn in every single operating room across the world every day when sterility is of the upmost importance? Standing 6 feet away is the most minor inconvenience I can possibly think of... I actually didn't mind not having people right on top of me for a while there. 
 

Next time you go to get surgery, right before you are put under anesthesia, ask your doc's to take off their surgical masks because there is zero benefit or chance you will contract any infections...

Your talking points are literally the poster child of a dumb citizen not using critical thinking or listening to clinically proven facts.

1. My adolescent child developed psychosis thru not being able to express himself in social media and not having the chance to interact with his peers. F you

2. My nephew a scholarship winner had to quit the football team for myocarditis after taking the vaccine.

3. Do they cut open your skin in surgery?

You're a poster child for unaware and a sheeple!

Edited 3 hours ago by Gene Mills Fan