1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 3 minutes ago, LJB said: where i come from that is a crawdaddy... Why don’t you define “top” wrestler for us, since you have used that word repeatedly in this discussion. If you were to ask me that, I’d say top 3 on the senior ladder. Using that definition, it is easier for a non “top” leg grabber to become a “top” Greco guy than vice versa. I don’t think that is a controversial opinion.
LJB Posted October 5 Posted October 5 why are you so scared to clarify who can wrestle and who can not?
LJB Posted October 5 Posted October 5 Just now, 1032004 said: Why don’t you define “top” wrestler for us, since you have used that word repeatedly in this discussion. If you were to ask me that, I’d say top 3 on the senior ladder. Using that definition, it is easier for a non “top” leg grabber to become a “top” Greco guy than vice versa. I don’t think that is a controversial opinion. is a top wrestler to an anonymous forum nerd some who is top 1% of who they represent, yes or no?
dragit Posted October 5 Posted October 5 6 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Well our #2’s at 55kg, 60kg, 72kg, 130kg were recently leg grabbers... Richards was primarily a leg grabber and despite a miraculous run a few years ago switched to Greco almost certainly because he felt that was his better chance to make the national team this year and he was right… Koontz transferred out of D1. Coon had a great NCAA career but I don’t see him beating our current top leg grabbers at this point in his career. Robb could have a shot at top 3 at 70 or 74. Our #2 at 77kg is 46 years old, I find it hard to believe he’d be very competitive with our top leg grabbers. Which weights are much deeper? Our #3’s at 60kg, 63kg, 87kg, 97kg are/were leg grabbers and I don’t think anyone would pick any of them to be near the top 3 at leg grabbing. To that point, regarding your most recent two posts - I most certainly am not and I don’t think anyone is saying that “just” being an AA, or a NQ, or a D1 starter, or a D2 starter, means any of these guys are not good wrestlers. But the fact of the matter is at least part of the reason many of them choose to go Greco is because they feel that gives them a better chance to make a team because the competition is tougher in leg grabbing. As you've documented there isn't a comparison. Based on amateur research, nine total U.S. Olympic greco medals, ever, outside 1984 boycott, with only one gold. No world golds in greco since 2006. All our very best go freestyle. Coon is a good example. He's probably our best college wrestler who went greco and from what I found is our only world greco finalist since 2010 (we often have four freestyle finalists in a single year). But he never won NCAAs, lost to a guy 60 pounds lighter, never wrestled freestyle worlds, etc. He's nowhere in the league of our freestyle reps with all their world medals. Terrific wrestler. Just not David Taylor, Jordan Burroughs, etc., etc. Nowhere near. Our very best guys just don't go greco.
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 (edited) 17 minutes ago, LJB said: why are you so scared to clarify who can wrestle and who can not? That’s just a distraction from the subject at hand. When people trash Greco, it is usually because of our recent lack of success on the senior international level. It is understood by the people saying these things that they would get smashed in a Greco match by the people they’re talking about. Edited October 5 by 1032004
LJB Posted October 5 Posted October 5 1 minute ago, dragit said: As you've documented there isn't a comparison. Based on amateur research, nine total U.S. Olympic greco medals, ever, outside 1984 boycott, with only one gold. No world golds in greco since 2006. All our very best go freestyle. Coon is a good example. He's probably our best college wrestler who went greco and from what I found is our only world greco finalist since 2010 (we often have four freestyle finalists in a single year). But he never won NCAAs, lost to a guy 60 pounds lighter, never wrestled freestyle worlds, etc. He's nowhere in the league of our freestyle reps with all their world medals. Terrific wrestler. Just not David Taylor, Jordan Burroughs, etc., etc. Nowhere near. Our very best guys just don't go greco. so only gold medalist can wrestle to an anonymous forum nerd? yes or no?
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 Just now, LJB said: so only gold medalist can wrestle to an anonymous forum nerd? yes or no? Aren’t you the same guy that called 99% of high school wrestlers garbage or something to that effect?
dragit Posted October 5 Posted October 5 1 minute ago, LJB said: so only gold medalist can wrestle to an anonymous forum nerd? yes or no? That's obviously not my argument. Hang in there, you can get through this.
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LJB said: is a top wrestler to an anonymous forum nerd some who is top 1% of who they represent, yes or no? I gave you my definition of top wrestler. Top 3 on the senior national team ladder. So yes, those people would be among the top 1%. Edited October 5 by 1032004
LJB Posted October 5 Posted October 5 2 minutes ago, 1032004 said: That’s just a distraction from the subject at hand. When people trash Greco, it is usually because of our recent lack of success on the senior international level. It is understood by the people saying these things that they would get smashed in a Greco march by the people they’re talking about. so anonymous forum nerds are justt being anonymous forum nerds, yes or no?
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 1 minute ago, LJB said: so anonymous forum nerds are justt being anonymous forum nerds, yes or no? I gave you my definition of top wrestler. What’s yours?
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 4 minutes ago, LJB said: so anonymous forum nerds are justt being anonymous forum nerds, yes or no? Speaking of forum nerds being forum nerds: On 8/5/2026 at 10:23 PM, LJB said: i am curious what constitutes a "good" high school wrestler because most are just flat out awful...
LJB Posted October 5 Posted October 5 Just now, 1032004 said: I gave you my definition of top wrestler. What’s yours? You fukn dummy… top 3 in nation level is less than 0.01… but anonymous forum nerds who never made it state think Greco guys are “unathletic”
LJB Posted October 5 Posted October 5 At some point you nerds will have to acknowledge you are nerds… yes or no?
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 Just now, LJB said: but anonymous forum nerds who never made it state think Greco guys are “unathletic” I never said that. What are you even arguing at this point? That our top 3 in Greco could probably be top 50 in leg grabbing? Sure, that’s reasonable.
RAFWiki Posted October 5 Posted October 5 Can we lock LJB and Greco Review in an empty room together with a bottle of Zoloft Pretty sure they'd start making out before they ever touch the bottle .
de4856 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 This is from Wikipedia: USA Greco-Roman wrestling has historically struggled, earning only 14 Olympic medals (3 gold, 6 silver, and 5 bronze) since its first Olympic appearance in 1904. The most successful period for the U.S. was between the 1996 Olympics and the 2007 Worlds, during which they won 22 medals, but performance has declined since then, with only six medals earned from 2008 onwards. So I guess my question is how was it that we had pretty good results between 96, and 07, and what has caused us to fall off afterwards.
WrestlingRasta Posted October 5 Posted October 5 13 hours ago, LJB said: we used to de better in Greco when everyone still wrestled Greco and free growing up… years ago a ton of kids did not even start wrestling folk until high school… Throw in how USAW started pushing folk tourneys and now kids can wrestle the shit style year round and you get an entire generation of wrestlers and “fans” who are just ignorant and scared of Greco… (Almost) everyone on the senior team were HS state champs… (almost) everyone on the senior team were multiple time champs and/or multiple time AAs at Fargo in BOTH styles… Highlighted the specific points I'm speaking to... we used to de better in Greco when everyone still wrestled Greco and free growing up… years ago a ton of kids did not even start wrestling folk until high school… I wrestled in college but did not wrestle any greco after HS. I still can guarantee I wrestled more, probably double, the number of greco matches (and free as well) throughout my life than folk. Throw in how USAW started pushing folk tourneys and now kids can wrestle the shit style year round and you get an entire generation of wrestlers and “fans” who are just ignorant and scared of Greco… You can literally follow the timeline of USAW's dive into and push of folkstyle wrestling, and see the result in USA Greco slide directly coincide with this timeline. our Greco guys in the US were all very good wrestlers coming up they just chose Greco because they liked it better… was just asked yesterday If you had to go back and change something what would it have been...I immediatley said would have went into the air force out of high school to wrestle greco.
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 14 hours ago, LJB said: years ago a ton of kids did not even start wrestling folk until high school… How many years ago?
Sulyvahn Posted October 5 Posted October 5 10 hours ago, 1032004 said: That’s just a distraction from the subject at hand. When people trash Greco, it is usually because of our recent lack of success on the senior international level. It is understood by the people saying these things that they would get smashed in a Greco match by the people they’re talking about. When the flo people talk about greco, it definitely comes across that they view the style as foreign, alien to then. Yeah maybe a gold medal level American would get some coverage. I think if they had grown up wrestling greco (just like it is with wrestling in general), they'd have a much more positive view of it. But you are blind to your own biases. Someone could harang folk features like riding/tummy time the same way they do for parts of greco they dislike, but that would not cross the flo guy's mind because folk is their comfort zone and what they're used to.
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 18 minutes ago, Sulyvahn said: When the flo people talk about greco, it definitely comes across that they view the style as foreign, alien to then. Yeah maybe a gold medal level American would get some coverage. I think if they had grown up wrestling greco (just like it is with wrestling in general), they'd have a much more positive view of it. But you are blind to your own biases. Someone could harang folk features like riding/tummy time the same way they do for parts of greco they dislike, but that would not cross the flo guy's mind because folk is their comfort zone and what they're used to. I do think Greco being boring to watch is part of it, but to be fair don’t a lot of the Flo guys say they enjoy watching free vs folk because of some of the parts of folk you allude to? If the NCAA tournament was Greco of course they’d talk about it far more regardless of how boring it is.
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 9 minutes ago, LJB said: Just so painfully average… That’s at least better compliment than when you described “most high school wrestlers” as awful (ironic coming from a guy who never wrestled). So spare us the “HoW wOuLd YoU dEfINe A gOoD wReStLeR” nonsense
LJB Posted October 5 Posted October 5 Just now, 1032004 said: That’s at least better compliment than when you described “most high school wrestlers” as awful (ironic coming from a guy who never wrestled). So spare us the “HoW wOuLd YoU dEfINe A gOoD wReStLeR” nonsense most are, dummy... and again... my wrestling experience far overrides whatever you think you did... you simply do not know much about wrestling... but, you have a screen name... i will give you that...
1032004 Posted October 5 Posted October 5 15 minutes ago, LJB said: most are, dummy... and again... my wrestling experience far overrides whatever you think you did... you simply do not know much about wrestling... but, you have a screen name... i will give you that... So it’s okay to trash the majority of high school wrestlers, but not to define our “top” wrestlers as top 3 in the country? Make it make sense. And no, your wrestling experience does not override mine at all, unless of course you’re living vicariously through your kids again. You do do that a lot. And again, I’ve been consistent in saying that someone’s own credentials doesn’t mean they can’t criticize someone who has better credentials than them. It’s just extremely odd to see you repeatedly bashing people’s credentials while having literally zero of your own.
Nevaeh Lavarias Pearl City High School, Hawaii Class of 2027 Committed to Kent State Projected Weight: 124
Braeden Simoneaux New York Military Academy, Louisiana Class of 2027 Committed to Wyoming Projected Weight: 184, 197
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