2016 vs 2026 NCAA Champs

[ScottishSteel]

13 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

For one, Imar wouldnt be able to bully him. 

Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion , man.

[happyvalet]

5 hours ago, ScottishSteel said:

Why not?

Larkin was basically the only person who could take Robideau down all year and he never got more than one in a match. I don't recall anyone turning Robideau either.

Maybe in IMar's era of flash takedowns without control he gets a couple scores, but no more than that. Robideau is extremely strong, hand fights well, and has excellent reattacks. In the modern era where takedowns require control, he might not score at all on Robideau. 

And IMar gave up plenty of takedowns as well, so Robideau would get his, likely on reattacks since IMar shoots a lot. 

[ScottishSteel]

55 minutes ago, happyvalet said:

Larkin was basically the only person who could take Robideau down all year and he never got more than one in a match. I don't recall anyone turning Robideau either.

Maybe in IMar's era of flash takedowns without control he gets a couple scores, but no more than that. Robideau is extremely strong, hand fights well, and has excellent reattacks. In the modern era where takedowns require control, he might not score at all on Robideau. 

And IMar gave up plenty of takedowns as well, so Robideau would get his, likely on reattacks since IMar shoots a lot. 

I understand what you are saying but IMar had 16 tech falls that year; 9 of which he scored over 20 points.  You are right rules have changed in interpretation of TD's but I find it hard to believe that he won't score at all on Robideau.  

[MoveCountermove]

I asked AI and it leaned heavily in favor of 2016. Some interesting choices differing from most here on the board thus far 

[BigRedFan]

For those of you who are picking McEnelly over Gabe Dean:  have you ever seen Gabe Dean wrestle?

FWIW, Dean is the all-time Cornell wins leader (152!), 4th in win percentage (behind Yianni/Auble/Dake), 1st in bonus point wins (101), second in pins (50), third in tech falls, and second in dominance (4.164 behind Yianni).

[MoveCountermove]

1 hour ago, BigRedFan said:

For those of you who are picking McEnelly over Gabe Dean:  have you ever seen Gabe Dean wrestle?

FWIW, Dean is the all-time Cornell wins leader (152!), 4th in win percentage (behind Yianni/Auble/Dake), 1st in bonus point wins (101), second in pins (50), third in tech falls, and second in dominance (4.164 behind Yianni).

AI had some things like this to say as well!

[jackwebster]

9 minutes ago, MoveCountermove said:

AI had some things like this to say as well!

Real question: why did you ask it the question? what did you hope to gain?

[JMill]

My thought is if you wouldn’t pick Robideau over Nolf, it’s tough to pick him over Izzy… had Nolf been the 2016 champ and part of this hypothetical match, I’d probably have said Nolf by major (89% bonus rate in 2016).

[happyvalet]

8 hours ago, JMill said:

My thought is if you wouldn’t pick Robideau over Nolf, it’s tough to pick him over Izzy… had Nolf been the 2016 champ and part of this hypothetical match, I’d probably have said Nolf by major (89% bonus rate in 2016).

As I said...

16 hours ago, happyvalet said:

Larkin was basically the only person who could take Robideau down all year and he never got more than one in a match. I don't recall anyone turning Robideau either.

Robideau is extremely strong, hand fights well, and has excellent reattacks. 

Robideau just went through one of the deepest weight classes in recent memory. PJ Duke is an offensive dynamo and has been hailed as a generational talent and he struggled mightily to score on Robideau. 

Predicting him to get bonused is crazy. You'll have to point out the weaknesses in his game if you think that. 

[MoveCountermove]

15 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Real question: why did you ask it the question? what did you hope to gain?

Insight

[SplitTheG]

On 5/7/2026 at 9:08 PM, elijedi06 said:

125 - Luke Lilledahl (25-0) v Nico Megaludis (32-3)

133 - Jax Forrest (18-0) v Nashon Garrett (37-0)

141 - Sergio Vega (24-0) v Dean Heil (32-1)

149 - Aden Valencia (21-7) v Zain Retherford (34-0)

157 - Landon Robideau (21-2) v Isaiah Martinez (32-1)

165 - Mitch Messenbrink (27-0) v Alex Dieringer (33-0)

174 - Levi Haines (26-0) v Myles Martin (33-6)

184 - Max McEnelly (24-2) v Gabe Dean (34-1)

197 - Josh Barr (24-0) v J’Den Cox (33-1) 

285 - Isaac Trumble (21-0) v Kyle Snyder (11-0)

2016 wins it, best matchup @ 165

125: Luke by dec

133: Jax by dec

141: Tight one, I'm going Heil in SV

149: Zain by maj/tech

157: IMar by dec

165: Another tight one, edge Dieringer for me by dec, but would be an awesome match.

174: Levi by dec

184: Dean by dec

197: Cox by dec

285: Snyder by maj

 

[BloodRound]

On 5/7/2026 at 9:08 PM, elijedi06 said:

125 - Luke Lilledahl (25-0) v Nico Megaludis (32-3)

133 - Jax Forrest (18-0) v Nashon Garrett (37-0)

141 - Sergio Vega (24-0) v Dean Heil (32-1)

149 - Aden Valencia (21-7) v Zain Retherford (34-0)

157 - Landon Robideau (21-2) v Isaiah Martinez (32-1)

165 - Mitch Messenbrink (27-0) v Alex Dieringer (33-0)

174 - Levi Haines (26-0) v Myles Martin (33-6)

184 - Max McEnelly (24-2) v Gabe Dean (34-1)

197 - Josh Barr (24-0) v J’Den Cox (33-1)

285 - Isaac Trumble (21-0) v Kyle Snyder (11-0)

125 - Megaludis dec. 3-0

133 - Forrest maj. 3-4

141 - Vega dec. 3-7

149 - ZainTrain tech. 7-7

157 - Martinez dec. 10-7

165 - MM dec. 10-10

174 - Haines maj. 10-14

184 - Dean dec. 13-14

197 - Cox dec. 16-14

285 - Snyder maj. 20-14

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, BloodRound said:

133 - Forrest maj. 3-4

I understand that Forrest is a generational wrestler, but to think that he would major Garrett (3/2/5/1) who went 34-0 with 70% bonus his senior year, pinning the returning champion (Brewer) in the NCAAs in :21 along the way, is kinda crazy.

Garrett had one of the best combinations of speed and strength I've ever seen.

[headshuck]

I understand that Forrest is a generational wrestler, but to think that he would major Garrett (3/2/5/1) who went 34-0 with 70% bonus his senior year, pinning the returning champion (Brewer) in the NCAAs in :21 along the way, is kinda crazy.
Garrett had one of the best combinations of speed and strength I've ever seen.

Like Dake, Cornell is doomed to lose all the hypothetical matchups.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, BigRedFan said:

I understand that Forrest is a generational wrestler, but to think that he would major Garrett (3/2/5/1) who went 34-0 with 70% bonus his senior year, pinning the returning champion (Brewer) in the NCAAs in :21 along the way, is kinda crazy.

Garrett had one of the best combinations of speed and strength I've ever seen.

Not to mention that it was way tougher to bonus guys in 2016.  And Garrett still did it 70% of the time.

[jackwebster]

On 5/10/2026 at 10:38 AM, MoveCountermove said:

Insight

Ok. Again IDK the answer to this, but how would it build its data set? If I had to guess, it would just pull from the sources that readers of this board are completely familiar with ... including posts from this board. The what? Compare the expressions of awe associated with each wrestler? It's not like there's numbers to crunch.

[MoveCountermove]

57 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Ok. Again IDK the answer to this, but how would it build its data set? If I had to guess, it would just pull from the sources that readers of this board are completely familiar with ... including posts from this board. The what? Compare the expressions of awe associated with each wrestler? It's not like there's numbers to crunch.

These feel like questions for people who aren’t me? Software engineers, perhaps? I’m unsure where you are going with all of this…

[BloodRound]

21 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

I understand that Forrest is a generational wrestler, but to think that he would major Garrett (3/2/5/1) who went 34-0 with 70% bonus his senior year, pinning the returning champion (Brewer) in the NCAAs in :21 along the way, is kinda crazy.

Garrett had one of the best combinations of speed and strength I've ever seen.

The more I think about it, I gotta concede that you're right.  Garrett really was on fire in that year when it really mattered.

Forrest wins by decision.

[GimJustafan]

 

[scourge165]

On 5/7/2026 at 8:08 PM, elijedi06 said:

125 - Luke Lilledahl (25-0) v Nico Megaludis (32-3) =Lilledahl Dec 3-0

133 - Jax Forrest (18-0) v Nashon Garrett (37-0) =Forrest Dec 6-0

141 - Sergio Vega (24-0) v Dean Heil (32-1) =Sergio(the styles) Dec. 9-0

149 - Aden Valencia (21-7) v Zain Retherford (34-0)=Zain Major 9-4

157 - Landon Robideau (21-2) v Isaiah Martinez (32-1)= Martinez=Dec 9-7

165 - Mitch Messenbrink (27-0) v Alex Dieringer (33-0)=Messenbrink(But Ringer would be right there). 12-7

174 - Levi Haines (26-0) v Myles Martin (33-6)=Haines by major 16-7

184 - Max McEnelly (24-2) v Gabe Dean (34-1)=I like McEnelly 19-7

197 - Josh Barr (24-0) v J’Den Cox (33-1)=Cox=He was so big, strong and fast. 19-10

285 - Isaac Trumble (21-0) v Kyle Snyder (11-0)=Snyder by major 19-14

I got class of 2026.
You could certainly say Dean over McEnelly...

[headshuck]

Dean lost to Nickal and McEnelly beats Nickal every day and twice on Sundays.

[BigRedFan]

20 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Dean lost to Nickal and McEnelly beats Nickal every day and twice on Sundays.

Dean also had a rib injury during that tournament.

[Bacanator]

27 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Dean lost to Nickal and McEnelly beats Nickal every day and twice on Sundays.

Dean beat Ed Ruth though