DT, the Pokes, and the Piper

[Offthemat]

19 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Is the "DT effect" still a thing? Didn't all three transfers end up doing worse than they were expected to six months ago?

Whose expectations?  And where might they have been without the ‘effect?’

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, BloodRound said:

Facundo, definitely. 

Swiderski I kind of always expected to finish in that 7/8 range, even after he took out McNeil.  I remember right after that, nobody really expected him to finish out the season.

Is it really fair to judge Ryder's performance when he wasn't even half as healthy as he was 6 months ago?

Well, I think you have to look at it this way: 

Ryder was ranked 4th in November, took 8th.  Even before the obvious shoulder injury, it was pretty clear that he was not a top 4 guy.  Other schools get judged all the time based on their wrestlers' injuries.  In fact, he was able to place largely because Silas Allread may have been hurt worse than him.

Facundo was ranked 6th as late as February,  DNP.

Swiderski was ranked 2nd in November. Took 8th.

The point is: All of them had much higher expectations than their final placement.  There does not appear to be any "DT effect" whatsoever, unlike what we saw with Wyatt and Hamiti.  And I say this as someone who loves DTs style as a wrestler and like what he is doing at Oklahoma State.  There's just no evidence that there is a magical effect of wrestling for the Magic Man.

[CyGold]

I agree that this is a good question when considering team chemistry and also coaching strategies.  I don't follow PSU that close.  I'm wondering how many AA's have transferred to other schools because they have been beat out by younger recruits and/or transfers?  

 

note: I know the Google machine could probably tell me this but I think a PSU fan might know this info off the top of his/her head.  TIA

[ionel]

18 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

 There's just no evidence that there is a magical effect of wrestling for the Magic Man.

Even though two transfers won last year, three tFr won this year (never been done before), two tFr went undefeated (only been done 1947 post wwII), hwt exceeded expectations, team score exceeded expectations but it can' be magic ... maybe the Whizzers?   

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

Even though two transfers won last year, three tFr won this year (never been done before), two tFr went undefeated (only been done 1947 post wwII), hwt exceeded expectations, team score exceeded expectations but it can' be magic ... maybe the Whizzers?   

I'm here for it.  I'm not saying he isn't a great coach.

The post I responded to made it seem like transfers get there and outperform expectations because of a "DT effect."  The three transfers this year fell short of expectations.

[Offthemat]

12 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

The post I responded to made it seem like transfers get there and outperform expectations because of a "DT effect."

I guess I need to clear this up.  The DT effect affects everybody on the team, some more than others.  Probably nowhere more evident than with Doucet. 

[alex1fly]

I agree, DT effect is more of a holistic coaching thing. 

59 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I guess I need to clear this up.  The DT effect affects everybody on the team, some more than others.  Probably nowhere more evident than with Doucet. 

 

[jackwebster]

10 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

I agree, DT effect is more of a holistic coaching thing. 

^^^ As bconnell pointed out, it will be impossible for OSU to beat PSU in the near-future even with fully mercenary tactics. So, I think DT needs to stay the course with this "holistic coaching thing" even if it means 2nd place for the next couple of years. Just as important, they need to continue the media blitz: more access, more stars, more sold out duals, more likes, more follows, etc. They won't win NCAA's in the next two, three years; but, they could win a PR battle and become THE face of college wrestling. 

They win this battle, who knows? 

[ionel]

23 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

^^^ As bconnell pointed out, it will be impossible for OSU to beat PSU in the near-future even with fully mercenary tactics. So, I think DT needs to stay the course with this "holistic coaching thing" even if it means 2nd place for the next couple of years. Just as important, they need to continue the media blitz: more access, more stars, more sold out duals, more likes, more follows, etc. They won't win NCAA's in the next two, three years; but, they could win a PR battle and become THE face of college wrestling. 

They win this battle, who knows? 

DT can win the cookie war.  

[jackwebster]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

DT can win the cookie war.  

Rimshot

[CHROMEBIRD]

How is OSU's revenue sharing situation looking? Fans and coaches from a bunch of Big 12 schools have been talking about how their school's athletics dept is in rough shape for revenue sports. ISU, ASU, Texas Tech, Arizona, K-State, Houston, and others all say they have a tough time scraping together the cash they need to stay afloat. Are Oklahoma State's finances in order? I know they are trying to rebuild football and basketball but don't know if wrestling is affected.

[JWC]

As a Posse member and ticket holder (AKA Forced Volunteer Donor) I believe OSU's rev share and NIL are good throughout all the sports.  And the AD is not shy to ask for more.

[boconnell]

3 hours ago, jackwebster said:

^^^ As bconnell pointed out, it will be impossible for OSU to beat PSU in the near-future even with fully mercenary tactics. So, I think DT needs to stay the course with this "holistic coaching thing" even if it means 2nd place for the next couple of years. Just as important, they need to continue the media blitz: more access, more stars, more sold out duals, more likes, more follows, etc. They won't win NCAA's in the next two, three years; but, they could win a PR battle and become THE face of college wrestling. 

They win this battle, who knows? 

I didn't say impossible.  I said really hard.  

If I thought there was a transfer at 149 or 174 that could make a difference, I'd be all for it.  Those guys were transfers replacing someone else just a year ago.

But beating PSU next year is unfortunately going to have to rely on a PSU stumble more than anything OSU does.  You literally have to beat the best team in history to win.  

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I didn't say impossible.  I said really hard.  

If I thought there was a transfer at 149 or 174 that could make a difference, I'd be all for it.  Those guys were transfers replacing someone else just a year ago.

But beating PSU next year is unfortunately going to have to rely on a PSU stumble more than anything OSU does.  You literally have to beat the best team in history to win.  

Casey almost beat Van Ness.  Dee was thought coming in to be best of the Fr, just think if he'd met expectations and Ryder hadnt injured his shoulder.  Its not impossible.  

[CHROMEBIRD]

17 minutes ago, JWC said:

As a Posse member and ticket holder (AKA Forced Volunteer Donor) I believe OSU's rev share and NIL are good throughout all the sports.  And the AD is not shy to ask for more.

That's good to know. I know last year OSU was over $5M in the red. OSU combines rev share and NIL into a single budget, right? Does wrestling have its own separate fundraising, or does it all flow into the PEF?

[JWC]

Just now, CHROMEBIRD said:

That's good to know. I know last year OSU was over $5M in the red. OSU combines rev share and NIL into a single budget, right? Does wrestling have its own separate fundraising, or does it all flow into the PEF?

It is my understanding that rev share and NIL can only be in the same budget up to 20.5M.  The NIL collective that exists over that is a separate entity.  Take the "Stilly Boys" merch line provided by Lane Frost Brand as an example wrestling only funding.

[OopsyDaisy1]

3 hours ago, jackwebster said:

^^^ As bconnell pointed out, it will be impossible for OSU to beat PSU in the near-future even with fully mercenary tactics. So, I think DT needs to stay the course with this "holistic coaching thing" even if it means 2nd place for the next couple of years. Just as important, they need to continue the media blitz: more access, more stars, more sold out duals, more likes, more follows, etc. They won't win NCAA's in the next two, three years; but, they could win a PR battle and become THE face of college wrestling. 

They win this battle, who knows? 

PSU and OSU both had 8 AA wrestlers this year. PSU had 4 champs compared to OSU's 3, and one of Penn State's was a Senior. As OSU's best guys get more experience, they'll score more bonus points. Do I think they'll win in 2027? No. But if they're going to pass PSU, I think it's just as likely to happen in the next year or 2 as it is 4 or 5 years out. 

[jackwebster]

22 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I didn't say impossible.  I said really hard.  

My bad. "Impossible" is my assessment. 

Re transfers at 149 and 174: I see your point, and I might come around. I'm not there yet.

24 minutes ago, ionel said:

Dee . . .just think if he'd met expectations

I hope you're right but am not optimistic.

[boconnell]

26 minutes ago, ionel said:

Casey almost beat Van Ness.  Dee was thought coming in to be best of the Fr, just think if he'd met expectations and Ryder hadnt injured his shoulder.  Its not impossible.  

I don't think he almost beat him.  I don't think he was ever close to a TD after the opening minute.  He showed a ton of heart, but he wasn't close to winning.  He was just scoreboard close.  Just like Davino wasn't close to beating Jax even though it was tied in the 3rd.  

If Lockett is a finalist and Ryder gets 5th (probably his ceiling without the shoulder injury), OSU still loses by a bunch.  That's my point.  You're making my point.

[boconnell]

2 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

My bad. "Impossible" is my assessment. 

Re transfers at 149 and 174: I see your point, and I might come around. I'm not there yet.

I hope you're right but am not optimistic.

I don't think I was clear.  I don't mean if a better 149 or 174 is available I'd take them.  I mean if a 149 or 174 was so much better they could significantly move title odds, I'd take them.  I don't think those guys really exist.

[jackwebster]

18 minutes ago, OopsyDaisy1 said:

But if they're going to pass PSU, I think it's just as likely to happen in the next year or 2 as it is 4 or 5 years out. 

If recruiting patterns stay the same, then I agree.

I'm hoping that recruiting patterns change and kids opt for the place where they can best grow their brands ( . . . If the wrestling stuff is essentially tve same.)

Right now Forrest has more Instagram followers than Mesenbrink and Van Ness combined.

 

Edited March 30 by jackwebster

[ionel]

17 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I don't think he almost beat him.  I don't think he was ever close to a TD after the opening minute.  He showed a ton of heart, but he wasn't close to winning.  He was just scoreboard close.  Just like Davino wasn't close to beating Jax even though it was tied in the 3rd.  

If Lockett is a finalist and Ryder gets 5th (probably his ceiling without the shoulder injury), OSU still loses by a bunch.  That's my point.  You're making my point.

2-2 is as close as 2-2 don't ya think? 

[SocraTease]

Maybe Cael is Taylor's eternal and dreaded "Dake" redux, the frenemy who will torment him in perpetuity because he can't slay his Daddy who, though growing older, simply gets better and forever gets the better of him

Edited March 31 by SocraTease

[Offthemat]

Has this been posted here already?

 

[PSULou64]

I am wondering why everyone chalks up all the top prospects to PSU because they have "bags of money" to throw at guys even though that's just pure conjecture meanwhile DT's success at bringing guys in and flipping previously committed guys to okst. is because of his allure, coaching style, etc. and has nothing to do with with the fact that they have the deepest pockets of all programs?

Based on his ridiculous salary alone for an unproven coaching commodity I would say their had to be at least a little something there regarding what they are shelling out for these guys.