forkemaz Posted October 24 Author Posted October 24 On 8/21/2026 at 6:26 AM, 1032004 said: Well you’re saying here you “know what goes on behind the scenes.” So please share: how was Danis penalized? He was booked again and given another paycheck to do exactly the same thing. Dont you know rewarding behaviors with money is penalization? Willie is a clown if RAF wasn't his baby hed be ripping shit like this just like I am.
whaletail Posted Sunday at 09:35 PM Posted Sunday at 09:35 PM On 10/24/2026 at 6:14 AM, forkemaz said: He was booked again and given another paycheck to do exactly the same thing. Dont you know rewarding behaviors with money is penalization? Willie is a clown if RAF wasn't his baby hed be ripping shit like this just like I am. Unfortunately, freestyle wrestling isn't college football or the NFL, and right now at least, the high profile squash matches and absurd behavior are subsidizing the real deal. I suspect Willie is a realist, and hopes that one day wrestling can survive on its own merits. And as 1032004 mentioned on the first page, RAF can be be doing really well while still losing money. They need to continue attracting investors, many/most of whom aren't traditional wrestling fans. But they know Armen, other UFC fighters, and influencers bring eyeballs, and they're likelier to invest.
GringoSuave Posted Sunday at 10:40 PM Posted Sunday at 10:40 PM I don't watch it. It's not about wrestling. It's just to sell the popularity of influencers and that crowd. Might as well have Jake Paul wrestling. 1
RAFWiki Posted Sunday at 10:50 PM Posted Sunday at 10:50 PM (edited) 10 minutes ago, GringoSuave said: I don't watch it. It's not about wrestling. It's just to sell the popularity of influencers and that crowd. Might as well have Jake Paul wrestling. Wrestlers by themselves don't sell, unfortunately. RAF 02 was headlined by Kyle Dake, and it was the worst-attended and lowest-watched show they did. RAF is good at selling wrestling to a mainstream audience. Is everyone happy with the final product? No - but they've made it work. Edited Sunday at 10:51 PM by RAFWiki .
boconnell Posted Monday at 12:24 AM Posted Monday at 12:24 AM 1 hour ago, RAFWiki said: Wrestlers by themselves don't sell, unfortunately. RAF 02 was headlined by Kyle Dake, and it was the worst-attended and lowest-watched show they did. RAF is good at selling wrestling to a mainstream audience. Is everyone happy with the final product? No - but they've made it work. If RAF was good at selling wrestling to a mainstream audience then they would have sold RAF 2 with Kyle Dake to a mainstream audience. What RAF is good at is selling almost wrestling to a mainstream audience. Because the almost wrestling is the part of the card that sells. It's like saying the Savannah Bananas are good at selling baseball to a mainstream audience. But what I do really appreciate about RAF is that their highly skilled sale of almost wrestling allows wrestlers to get paid for wrestling. 3
RAFWiki Posted Monday at 12:37 AM Posted Monday at 12:37 AM 2 minutes ago, boconnell said: If RAF was good at selling wrestling to a mainstream audience then they would have sold RAF 2 with Kyle Dake to a mainstream audience. To be fair - it was only their second show, and it was kind of cursed to begin with. RAF booked Penn State thinking it would be an instant sellout - place was empty. Kyle Snyder was originally supposed to headline, but he got hurt. Dake's match then got moved to the main event. NBC put out a nice article about Dake yesterday, so I'm assuming they're going to make him one of their primary Team USA storylines for the 2028 Olympics. In a perfect world, RAF and UWW would support each other's products and help each other with cross-promotion. But since they're competing products, it'll never happen outside of passing mentions of World/Olympic accomplishments from Sparks on commentary. .
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted Monday at 01:39 AM Posted Monday at 01:39 AM 1 hour ago, RAFWiki said: To be fair - it was only their second show, and it was kind of cursed to begin with. RAF booked Penn State thinking it would be an instant sellout - place was empty. Kyle Snyder was originally supposed to headline, but he got hurt. Dake's match then got moved to the main event. NBC put out a nice article about Dake yesterday, so I'm assuming they're going to make him one of their primary Team USA storylines for the 2028 Olympics. In a perfect world, RAF and UWW would support each other's products and help each other with cross-promotion. But since they're competing products, it'll never happen outside of passing mentions of World/Olympic accomplishments from Sparks on commentary. Competing products? Not really.
forkemaz Posted Monday at 01:41 AM Author Posted Monday at 01:41 AM 4 hours ago, whaletail said: Unfortunately, freestyle wrestling isn't college football or the NFL, and right now at least, the high profile squash matches and absurd behavior are subsidizing the real deal. I suspect Willie is a realist, and hopes that one day wrestling can survive on its own merits. And as 1032004 mentioned on the first page, RAF can be be doing really well while still losing money. They need to continue attracting investors, many/most of whom aren't traditional wrestling fans. But they know Armen, other UFC fighters, and influencers bring eyeballs, and they're likelier to invest. I don't subscribe to the argument of doing the wrong thing for the right reason. Im all for using MMA guys and people with online followings, im aware what timeline we exist in, but I will not accept that we need to make a joke of the sport by purposefully booking and rewarding guys for starting brawls and acting completely unsportsmanlike. Sometimes fights happen naturally, but these are manufactured under such thinly veiled deniability that its disgusting.
forkemaz Posted Monday at 01:45 AM Author Posted Monday at 01:45 AM 2 hours ago, RAFWiki said: Wrestlers by themselves don't sell, unfortunately. If this is the belief system behind RAF... fuck em. If you dont beleive in the ability of wrestling to sell then dont make it your product.
RAFWiki Posted Monday at 02:26 AM Posted Monday at 02:26 AM (edited) 45 minutes ago, forkemaz said: If this is the belief system behind RAF... fuck em. If you dont beleive in the ability of wrestling to sell then dont make it your product. If Colby Covington wouldn't have got the MMA press to start covering RAF events in late 2025/early 2026, RAF would probably have been dead by now Edited Monday at 02:31 AM by RAFWiki .
forkemaz Posted Monday at 10:43 AM Author Posted Monday at 10:43 AM 8 hours ago, RAFWiki said: If Colby Covington wouldn't have got the MMA press to start covering RAF events in late 2025/early 2026, RAF would probably have been dead by now A) I dont understand how that pertains to what I said. The entire point of this thread is wrestling is enough without manufacturing fights for clips and dragging the sport into the gutter, not that leaning on MMA media and name value is completely unacceptable. B) that's interesting especially coupled with what you are saying about RAF 2 because Willie and the pro wrestling guy (Bosh? Thats probably not his name I forget) were shouting from the rooftops how RAF was out performing all expectations and how happy Fox 1 (the app, again I could be getting the name wrong) was to have them for quite some time. Cut to now and all of a sudden RAF was on the ropes and needed Colby Covington and MMA to save them.
GringoSuave Posted Monday at 01:20 PM Posted Monday at 01:20 PM 14 hours ago, RAFWiki said: Wrestlers by themselves don't sell, unfortunately. RAF 02 was headlined by Kyle Dake, and it was the worst-attended and lowest-watched show they did. RAF is good at selling wrestling to a mainstream audience. Is everyone happy with the final product? No - but they've made it work. By allowing non wrestlers to participate and make the sport look childish and reward shitty behavior. No thank you. 1
forkemaz Posted Monday at 05:05 PM Author Posted Monday at 05:05 PM Bishoff! Pretty sure thats the name od the pro wrestling guy I was referring to he went on Baschmania around the early RAFs.
whaletail Posted Monday at 06:09 PM Posted Monday at 06:09 PM 16 hours ago, forkemaz said: I don't subscribe to the argument of doing the wrong thing for the right reason. Im all for using MMA guys and people with online followings, im aware what timeline we exist in, but I will not accept that we need to make a joke of the sport by purposefully booking and rewarding guys for starting brawls and acting completely unsportsmanlike. Sometimes fights happen naturally, but these are manufactured under such thinly veiled deniability that its disgusting. I'm not sure they need to be in business with whackjobs like Dillon Danis, but Eric Bishoff's claim to fame is building a pro wrestling organization willing to wade deeper into outrageousness than even the WWE for a brief moment in the mid 90s. I've never been a pro wrestling fan, but from documentaries I've seen, the competition for cable ratings was a race to the very edge of what they could get away with, and ended up leading to some tragic deaths (Owen Hart, I think, dying in a stunt gone awry, even more steroid and drug abuse, and one wrestler killing himself and his family in murder/suicide). I'm not claiming Bishoff is even a villain necessarily, but it doesn't shock me that his recipe for success is to generate casual fan interest with outrageousness, and hope they stick around. So far it's been far more successful than I'd have guessed. I thought they'd flop like grand slam track, but these MMA crossover, and influencer matches seem to have captured the zeitgeist. Personally, I hope they don't double down on the outrageousness, but rather use stars like Tsurukyan to maybe build up some wrestlers profiles. I realize sports are entertainment, but I prefer the spotlight on sport, not pure entertainment. We'll just have to see how RAF evolves, but as much as I disagree with Willie ideologically, I'm glad he's in a position of influence at RAF. 1
LJB Posted Monday at 06:13 PM Posted Monday at 06:13 PM i can say that the MMA nerds are even starting to roll their eyes at some of the matchups lately... but, they all cooled off collectively after Colby totally neutralized Arman... it felt like it was a bit of an eye opener for them as a whole... 1
forkemaz Posted Monday at 08:15 PM Author Posted Monday at 08:15 PM 2 hours ago, whaletail said: I'm not sure they need to be in business with whackjobs like Dillon Danis, but Eric Bishoff's claim to fame is building a pro wrestling organization willing to wade deeper into outrageousness than even the WWE for a brief moment in the mid 90s. I've never been a pro wrestling fan, but from documentaries I've seen, the competition for cable ratings was a race to the very edge of what they could get away with, and ended up leading to some tragic deaths (Owen Hart, I think, dying in a stunt gone awry, even more steroid and drug abuse, and one wrestler killing himself and his family in murder/suicide). I'm not claiming Bishoff is even a villain necessarily, but it doesn't shock me that his recipe for success is to generate casual fan interest with outrageousness, and hope they stick around. So far it's been far more successful than I'd have guessed. I thought they'd flop like grand slam track, but these MMA crossover, and influencer matches seem to have captured the zeitgeist. Personally, I hope they don't double down on the outrageousness, but rather use stars like Tsurukyan to maybe build up some wrestlers profiles. I realize sports are entertainment, but I prefer the spotlight on sport, not pure entertainment. We'll just have to see how RAF evolves, but as much as I disagree with Willie ideologically, I'm glad he's in a position of influence at RAF. This is a very enlightening post as I dont know much about pro wrestling or its history. Thank you. I also hope they can lay off the nonsense and focus on the wrestling and wrestlers as they gain sure footing and a consistent audience but it seems they dont beleive in the product so the gimmicks are likely here to stay.
LJB Posted Monday at 08:24 PM Posted Monday at 08:24 PM i do not mind the MMA matches to be honest... i for sure do not mind the crossover belts as what they are considering the appropriate athletes for those classes still has some way above average wrestling involved... i have enjoyed literally every event they have put on... do i like what they did with the jackass youtuber? no... do i like them having Danis anywhere near an event? no... but they good for wrestling they have already achieved exponentially exceeds whatever perceived bad for wrestling they have caused... they recently packed the same arena NCAAs were held at recently... (all) the athletes are making some real (comparatively) money... there is nothing wrong with that...
whaletail Posted Tuesday at 11:27 PM Posted Tuesday at 11:27 PM On 11/2/2026 at 3:24 PM, LJB said: i do not mind the MMA matches to be honest... i for sure do not mind the crossover belts as what they are considering the appropriate athletes for those classes still has some way above average wrestling involved... i have enjoyed literally every event they have put on... do i like what they did with the jackass youtuber? no... do i like them having Danis anywhere near an event? no... but they good for wrestling they have already achieved exponentially exceeds whatever perceived bad for wrestling they have caused... they recently packed the same arena NCAAs were held at recently... (all) the athletes are making some real (comparatively) money... there is nothing wrong with that... That's about where I am. Don't mind sacrificing a little purity if it helps wrestlers feed their families, and don't really mind the MMA crossover matches at all. I wouldn't be in business with Danis, or YouTubers (absent really compelling circumstances), and I'd let rivalries and any other drama grow organically. When that stuff feels manufactured, it's embarrassing for everyone. But they've built a professional product that spotlights many of the coolest aspects of freestyle, and I suspect youth clubs have grown as a result. 1
flyingcement Posted Tuesday at 11:49 PM Posted Tuesday at 11:49 PM 20 minutes ago, whaletail said: That's about where I am. Don't mind sacrificing a little purity if it helps wrestlers feed their families, and don't really mind the MMA crossover matches at all. I wouldn't be in business with Danis, or YouTubers (absent really compelling circumstances), and I'd let rivalries and any other drama grow organically. When that stuff feels manufactured, it's embarrassing for everyone. But they've built a professional product that spotlights many of the coolest aspects of freestyle, and I suspect youth clubs have grown as a result. Until wrestling becomes a bigger money maker, MMA is one of the most realistic ways a wrestler could leverage their skills in a useful way. I like watching MMA and when I lived in the UK where there was literally no wrestling, I joined an MMA club and it helped fill the void.
1032004 Posted Wednesday at 12:13 AM Posted Wednesday at 12:13 AM 43 minutes ago, whaletail said: That's about where I am. Don't mind sacrificing a little purity if it helps wrestlers feed their families, and don't really mind the MMA crossover matches at all. I wouldn't be in business with Danis, or YouTubers (absent really compelling circumstances), and I'd let rivalries and any other drama grow organically. When that stuff feels manufactured, it's embarrassing for everyone. But they've built a professional product that spotlights many of the coolest aspects of freestyle, and I suspect youth clubs have grown as a result. I don’t see a problem with YouTubers if they can wrestle and aren’t starting problems - seems like Giorgio has been MIA since getting arrested for throwing his future brother in law through a table for instance.
RAFWiki Posted Wednesday at 01:03 AM Posted Wednesday at 01:03 AM 48 minutes ago, 1032004 said: I don’t see a problem with YouTubers if they can wrestle and aren’t starting problems - seems like Giorgio has been MIA since getting arrested for throwing his future brother in law through a table for instance. Georgio only had a 3-match deal. He's been off the roster since March. .
juniorvarsity Posted Wednesday at 01:14 AM Posted Wednesday at 01:14 AM On 11/2/2026 at 3:24 PM, LJB said: i do not mind the MMA matches to be honest... i for sure do not mind the crossover belts as what they are considering the appropriate athletes for those classes still has some way above average wrestling involved... i have enjoyed literally every event they have put on... do i like what they did with the jackass youtuber? no... do i like them having Danis anywhere near an event? no... but they good for wrestling they have already achieved exponentially exceeds whatever perceived bad for wrestling they have caused... they recently packed the same arena NCAAs were held at recently... (all) the athletes are making some real (comparatively) money... there is nothing wrong with that... I struggle to understand why this isn’t a more widely shared perspective. It's a net positive. I enjoy it. There are world class match ups. There's also some dumb shit, but I don't turn the TV off
LJB Posted Wednesday at 01:21 AM Posted Wednesday at 01:21 AM 2 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said: I struggle to understand why this isn’t a more widely shared perspective. It's a net positive. I enjoy it. There are world class match ups. There's also some dumb shit, but I don't turn the TV off most on the internet safe behind their screen name just want to feel edgy and accomplish that by complaining about literally everything... meanwhile RAF isa going international, resigning streaming deals, and selling out arenas...
Jadon Dinwiddie Downers Grove South, Illinois Class of 2027 Committed to Wisconsin Parkside Projected Weight: 141
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