Day Three: Session 6: Finals official thread

[Pa in Taiwan]

16 minutes ago, BaldAt23 said:

Oklahoma State will be a real possibility to steal top recruits from PSU. That alone could lower PSU point total. Very interested to see what the scores look like in 5 years

According to recruiting rankings, Oklahoma State has assembled a historically dominant 2026 recruiting class that is currently ranked No. 1 in the nation, while Penn State's class is smaller and less decorated. Oklahoma State: No. 1 nationally for the 2026 class. Four of the top six pound-for-pound recruits in the nation. At least six top-100 commits, including the No. 2, 4, 5, and 6 recruits. Penn State: Only two commits ranked in the top 30 of their class. Only three known commits, headlined by No. 3 Jayden James.

PSU has so much depth, so it's not surprising that young bucks are going with the Magic Man and Okie State. Consider the prospect of sitting for two years behinds some PSU hammer. How is that going to sharpen your skills? Yes, the PSU room is a great place to grow, but psychologically it's better to get right out there and compete with the top guys in the NCAA.  

 

[PortaJohn]

4 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Honestly, I don't have a problem with how it was called. In fact, I've been arguing for the last couple of months that this is how I would like stalling to be called. You shouldn't get to wrestle like McGowan and be able to make it to OT tied 1-1. 

My only gripe is that they have let people like McGowan get away with this all season, and then they decided to actually start making the call in the NCAA finals. You can't start enforcing stalling in the finals after letting it happen all season.

Again, I don't have much of a gripe because if you wrestle hoping to go to OT/rideouts, I don't have much sympathy for you. Try to win the match by wrestling, not by abusing lenience for stalling.

If they start calling matches this way consistently, you'll see guys change their styles and the do nothing strategy will no longer be viable. Again, after watching it happen all year with impunity, it was a little weird to see it because enforced in the finals.

They called it exactly like this back in February when they wrestled and McGowan was stalled out of the match

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, boconnell said:

This is such a weird assumption that has come up a few times in the last hour.  The bad stallers in the finals aren't stalling because they can get away with it, they are stalling because they have no offense and opening up will get them beat worse.  If you call McGowan for stalling in all of the matches where he can't score and resorts to stalling, it will look exactly like how he was officiated this year.  It only became an issue for him when he wrestled Liledahl.  Calling more stalling isn't going to force him to beat Liledahl.

Google some iptv matches from the 90s.    A lot of the youngins today don’t know what stalling getting called really looks like 

Edited March 22 by Caveira

[Ethan Mcgrath]

Just now, boconnell said:

This is such a weird assumption that has come up a few times in the last hour.  The bad stallers in the finals aren't stalling because they can get away with it, they are stalling because they have no offense and opening up will get them beat worse.  If you call McGowan for stalling in all of the matches where he can't score and resorts to stalling, it will look exactly like how he was officiated this year.  It only became an issue for him when he wrestled Liledahl.  Calling more stalling isn't going to force him to beat Liledahl.

I think he means that it’ll mean that he may lose earlier in the tourney if he gets called for stalling more he may not be in the finals at all and someone who wants to be aggressive will

[boconnell]

1 minute ago, Ethan Mcgrath said:

Tbh I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not? But also if it was called aggressively all season and McGowan kept losing because he was stalling then maybe coaches change or maybe he just loses that way way before the finals

You are living in fantasy world if you think McGowan is going to keep losing by stalling and get replaced.  

He only does it against guys better than him.  That only happens a couple of times a year.  Even if he gets DQ'd a couple of times a year, his spot in the Princeton lineup isn't in any kind of danger.  

Stalling was mostly called when it should have been.  Taking the most subjective call in wrestling and calling it way more often is not going to make things better.  

But if you want to live in make believe and think more stalling fixes everything and gets all the stallers replaced, go ahead.

[Kov88]

Best finals I could remember in years. Usually in the finals it’s 1-1 going to OT because neither wrestler wants to make a mistake.

a lot of upsets this year and I feel like overall more scoring.

[KSoze]

37 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I love this.  Absolutely love it.  

I desperately wish i was in the PSU fan's position of celebrating a title.  But the 2nd best outcome is watching bitter PSU fans unravel and watch matches hunting for tiny openings to insult Jax Forest.  

Great match from Jax.  Absolutely controlled every second from every position.  It's so impressive to see him win at that style.  Like he said after, he likes being crazy, but he's also better at control than anyone else.  He can dominate an opponent however they want to be dominated.  

I'm not a PSU fan. 

[boconnell]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Mcgrath said:

I think he means that it’ll mean that he may lose earlier in the tourney if he gets called for stalling more he may not be in the finals at all and someone who wants to be aggressive will

This assumes that he wrestles the same way when he's a favorite or tossup as he does when he's a huge underdog.  

[Ethan Mcgrath]

1 minute ago, boconnell said:

You are living in fantasy world if you think McGowan is going to keep losing by stalling and get replaced.  

He only does it against guys better than him.  That only happens a couple of times a year.  Even if he gets DQ'd a couple of times a year, his spot in the Princeton lineup isn't in any kind of danger.  

Stalling was mostly called when it should have been.  Taking the most subjective call in wrestling and calling it way more often is not going to make things better.  

But if you want to live in make believe and think more stalling fixes everything and gets all the stallers replaced, go ahead.

Idk much abt McGowan I’ve only seen him wrestle against LL so my perception is 100% skewed but if you call stalling more guys will have to at least attempt a shot or stop backing up unless they’re going to get dqed but why do you think it won’t work?

[BruceyB]

2 minutes ago, Le duke said:

But MAM got stalled out in the dual. So he’d already had the experience.

Yet, still did the exact same thing.

That was so weird. I don’t get it at all. Was he hoping LL would take a shot to extend his lead, and he’d be able to counter?


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I can understand using the stall tactic to get to the third period tied 1-1. I don't like it, but I understand it. But to then continue to do nothing until you get hit again and are now TRAILING with 52 seconds to go.. you're just letting Luke evade with impunity for the rest of the match at that point. The refs aren't going to hit him twice to bail MAM out. Baffling.

[boconnell]

1 minute ago, KSoze said:

I'm not a PSU fan. 

That's not as fun.

But you randomly hating on Jax while he dominates is still fun.  

[KSoze]

Just now, boconnell said:

That's not as fun.

But you randomly hating on Jax while he dominates is still fun.  

It's not hate. It's what he was doing. It was smart, you're too sensitive. 

[Truzzcat]

To the Mcgowan LL match. Mcgowan is one of the best finishers at the weight and probably aside from V-rob the only guy that can match Lukes athleticism. So watching him go out and hoping luke would lose the match for himself rather than trying to win it was a tough look.

[boconnell]

1 minute ago, Ethan Mcgrath said:

Idk much abt McGowan I’ve only seen him wrestle against LL so my perception is 100% skewed but if you call stalling more guys will have to at least attempt a shot or stop backing up unless they’re going to get dqed but why do you think it won’t work?

He got DQd early in the year and Princeton was still thrilled for him to stay in the lineup.  If you change all of his losses to DQs, they are still thrilled for him to stay in the lineup.  You are throwing an optimistic solution at a broad problem and pretending it will have an impact.  

[Ethan Mcgrath]

Just now, boconnell said:

He got DQd early in the year and Princeton was still thrilled for him to stay in the lineup.  If you change all of his losses to DQs, they are still thrilled for him to stay in the lineup.  You are throwing an optimistic solution at a broad problem and pretending it will have an impact.  

My point abt replacing was just kinda throwing that out there but if any wrestler who is disengaging or backing up is getting called for stalling more they would hve to wrestle more aggressively right? Maybe it’s optimistic but at least it’d be better than some 2-1 matches or maybe not but might as well try

[BruceyB]

8 minutes ago, boconnell said:

This is such a weird assumption that has come up a few times in the last hour.  The bad stallers in the finals aren't stalling because they can get away with it, they are stalling because they have no offense and opening up will get them beat worse.  If you call McGowan for stalling in all of the matches where he can't score and resorts to stalling, it will look exactly like how he was officiated this year.  It only became an issue for him when he wrestled Liledahl.  Calling more stalling isn't going to force him to beat Liledahl.

That's not my argument at all. I like how he was officiated this year. I just didn't see matches officiated this way all year, and saw two happen in the finals. A lot of stalling has been permissible all season, and I was surprised that the refs get tough on it in the finals where they are usually even more reluctant to make the call.

I agree with everything you said here. I think McGowan is clearly the lesser wrestler in this match and allowing him to stall makes it so he can keep it close.

TL;DR: I was just surprised that refs were willing to make tough stalling calls in the NCAA finals after letting it slide all season.

[Caveira]

Obviously I have no metrics.  Now how would I.  Feels like the most stalling calls early in the first period ever.  Wish we had data to really ascertain this type of info 

[PortaJohn]

6 minutes ago, Ethan Mcgrath said:

My point abt replacing was just kinda throwing that out there but if any wrestler who is disengaging or backing up is getting called for stalling more they would hve to wrestle more aggressively right? Maybe it’s optimistic but at least it’d be better than some 2-1 matches or maybe not but might as well try

Theres only so many things they can do to get more activity.  We could eliminate collar ties, dropping to a knee, get rid of finger lacing, etc and some guys will still wrestle at a certain pace with limited output.

Edited March 22 by PortaJohn

[boconnell]

5 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

That's not my argument at all. I like how he was officiated this year. I just didn't see matches officiated this way all year, and saw two happen in the finals. A lot of stalling has been permissible all season, and I was surprised that the refs get tough on it in the finals where they are usually even more reluctant to make the call.

I agree with everything you said here. I think McGowan is clearly the lesser wrestler in this match and allowing him to stall makes it so he can keep it close.

TL;DR: I was just surprised that refs were willing to make tough stalling calls in the NCAA finals after letting it slide all season.

I was replying narrowly to your statement that calling more stalling would change how guys wrestle.  I don't think it would.  I think lesser guys will always try to stall, no matter the officiating.  

[Caveira]

Just now, boconnell said:

I was replying narrowly to your statement that calling more stalling would change how guys wrestle.  I don't think it would.  I think lesser guys will always try to stall, no matter the officiating.  

Watch 1990s iptv duals on YouTube.   You would be surprised 

Edited March 22 by Caveira

[boconnell]

3 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Watch 1990s iptv duals on YouTube.   You would be surprised 

Why would I be surprised?  Was no stalling called in those matches?

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Why would I be surprised?  Was no stalling called in those matches?

A bazillion stall calls back then. It was a different sport boss 

[boconnell]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

A bazillion stall calls back then. It was a different sport boss 

 I know.  It 100% makes my point then.  They called it all the time and it absolutely didn't change how guys wrestled.  Guys still stalled constantly and they had to keep calling a bazillion stalls.  

Calling more stalling may or may not be better.  I'm not arguing either.  

Calling more stalling will not change how guys wrestle and stop guys from stalling.

Edited March 22 by boconnell

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, boconnell said:

 I know.  It 100% makes my point then.  They called it all the time and it absolutely didn't change how guys wrestled.  Guys still stalled constantly and they had to keep calling a bazillion stalls.  

Calling more stalling may or may not be better.  I'm not arguing either.  

Calling more stalling will not change how guys wrestle and stop guys from stalling.

Um the action back then was way way way crazier than today.   It completely changed how they wrestled

[boconnell]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Um the action back then was way way way crazier than today.   It completely changed how they wrestled

It completely changed how they wrestled and made way way crazier action...in matches where they called stalling a bazillion times.

This makes a ton of sense.