wrestle87

I’m not saying this to be argumentative, I do think OSU is in a precarious situation to an under-appreciated extent. While historically a top 3 program in everyone’s mind who remembers wrestling before cael at penn state, I can’t recall the last time okie state had a real murderers row. In an era where the benefits of gentler(ie less insane) coaching and smarter programming have become abundantly clear, injury rates and outcomes for athletes in that program have taken a real nose dive in the past ten years. It seems like, increasingly each year, good kids go to that program and leave tired, exhausted, and injured. It is something you here in the voices of every graduate of that room, even the major bigtime studs like cormier, mark munoz, jordan oliver, esposito, pendleton, watch their faces when they tell John Smith stories. They all just sound shell shocked. Fear is no longer a legacy that maintains or builds programs. I think it says boatloads that munoz the younger is at oregon state with pendleton, and doing very well there. For whatever reason they showed Espo the door, even though he (must have) been carrying tons of water for that program for more than a decade. I can’t imagine anyone staying in the room very long if not for Espo. I guess they decided if you want the HC job you need an olympic medal. It’s nice to gloss over the situational specifics, but this isn’t tom ryan going to Ohio State after the graceful retirement of a long-time father figure to the program. This feels a lot more like a guy not wanting to take a hint, and the administration making moves to give him the old shoulder nudge. Is it a desirable place? Maybe, but he has been so monolithic there for so long, nobody knows what okie state is without him, and from the looks of it he’s turned so ornery that it’s not a lock that institutional knowledge, know-how, or relationships will be left in states of good repair upon his exit. Gable, while also a thoroughly nuts personality, maintained relationships and understood “big” wrestling rather well. The Iowa wrestling team is, from an admin level, very well managed, and Gable clearly has guided his successors and instilled the importance of communication and stewardship in them. I do not expect the same from the wizard of the low single. IMO, they wouldn’t have brought in a coach who knows how to start from scratch if the situation were better.

Does he really?(rhetorical question, that’s pretty cool) Is that dry year round or just dry for the season? And not being from Oklahoma, I’m going to ask the obnoxious question about why that would be difficult in Stillwater.

I would also like to understand what is happening here…

I hadn’t thought about this, but what about Dake? He was the anti-captain america for so much of his career, being the un-taylor, un-burroughs and un-cox, the shadowy mountain voodoo ninja who just kept at it for almost a decade before really breaking through.

I get that, but that’s also 1) still extremely difficult 2) a result of the best guys making use of prep and technology, and using everything that we have at our fingertips that wasn’t there in the past, which I think is largely mindset-driven. No coincidence that Yianni won after such extensive exposure to dake, and that Cael is passing along his knowledge to his guys. Also, this isn’t a new goal, Iowa guys in the 80’s were knocking on the 4x door, they just never got over the hump. Let’s keep in mind, with a real referee, Jordan oliver is a 3xer and logan steiber is also a 3xer. We’re not exactly swimming in 4x wrestlers.

I’m not sure, just remember reading gable’s books back in the day and he referenced having to show up at bars and straighten things out with the cops a few times, figured that is worthy of inclusion, but I don’t know who that would include

“Seeearch your leg attacks, you know the pick to be true…”

Razor thin, and I have an obnoxious answer. For college, I’d say Starocci. I predict that overall, however, it will be Brooks. It is such a fine line, but Starocci has more big moment wins over guys who at the time were legitimate contenders, and he has widened the gap against those he’s still competing against. However, 174 is arguably worst weight to be at for anyone with international aspirations, rivaled only by 133. The jumps are too big, and usually guys at 174 don’t have the frame for 86kg, and the cut to 74kg is too much of a pull for them.

I have to put cenzo as my 165, dude was always so positive and smiley around wrestling. Plus, decking Imar his freshman year was just epic.

Great call. Anybody around who remembers the 80’s Iowa teams? There have to be some guys from those teams, I just wasn’t around to watch them.

For Heavyweight, gotta be Mocco after he went to Okie State, that makes him double-heel, he was the bad guy at Iowa, but then went to potentially the most heel team to ever win an ncaa championship, even being a heel for the Iowa fanbase.

There was a very successful 125-133 lb wrestler for ISU and PSU in the early Cael days who was so uncouth in his unbridled disregard for personal space that he could probably take down both the 125 and 133 spots.

How deep are we going on this in terms of heel definition? There are a few athletes who fell rather far afoul of what is expected in decent society (even before gambling ), are we taking any of that into account?

Funny how this contributes to teams being shut down j*sus christ, to even be in the same ballpark is terrifying.

You’re not wrong, but think about how much it says that Cael can go full Bob Knight and still not be close to being in the same league as J Smith and the Brands Bros in terms of uncontrollable competitive rage. I think a better barometer is to look at how wrestlers behave who are part of the program, and how grads of the program behave and comport themselves. I give T&T a lot of credit for improving the lives of some young men who really need it, but the average Iowa guy looks worn out and tired of the sport. The average cowboy looks like they are ready to transfer or drop out, hopefully C Scott will make it a fun room again.

The man is a symptom, not a cause, of the direction Flo decided to move in ~5 years ago, hewing to clickbaity gaslighty snark that is successful on social media. It works, and his style works on social media-focused consumers. That same move gutted Flo of the spirit and direction that made it a real torch-bearer for wrestling broadly. This has been laid out by all the guys who have left. Off the top of my head, in its heyday, flo had joe flo, fretwell, roper, mike mal, and our own esteemed host on this platform. All dudes who cared deeply about the sport, and achieved personally therein, coming to flo for a love of the sport. Everything they put out just beamed with enthusiasm. Early to mid 2010’s flo was incredible. Nowadays, what % of the guys on the current flowrestling squad actually wrestled? I don’t believe their current flagbearer did.

While watching this match the whole time I was thinking “dang, I can’t wait to see this match in a year or two”

It could go great for him. Speaking from personal experience as a far worse but similarly built athlete from a long time ago, a decision to move up ten pounds and one weight class had me running over guys I couldn’t handle the year before bc “weight management” took it out of me. It allowed my frame to fill out, sleep better, be better rested and be much stronger Hamiti might be getting really big in the off-season, or even in-between matches. It’s hard to bring the heat when your body explodes back up in weight from just seeing calories or hydration.

Very true. And Iowa was likely getting a higher average tier of recruit. No Penn State to compete with. Coaching trees have grown, and wrestling has largely moved on and disproven the Iowa grind style in favor of “hey let’s actually respect our bodies and our minds and see what that does” approach. Twin mini-gables and Mr J Smith are so dyed-in-the-wool blood sweat and tears coaches they squeeze their athletes too hard, or just don’t know another way. There’s an interview with either John or one of the brands about a time when one of the brands walked up to John and asked when they can expect to finally stop getting fired up and not want to go fight the world while their wrestlers are competing. The answer from John was “it never stops.” Then…a more mature well-rounded adult devised a far more comprehensive coaching persona, style, and culture, and left those programs in the dust. Two of these rooms coach based in anger and discipline, one coaches based on gratitude, perspective, and creativity. The sport has moved on in a big way and its a great thing.

Lol if that’s a bryce andonian final score someone got pinned.

My feelings on the matter

Seriously, my brain has started conflating IOC, FIFA, and UWW.

Because the right price hadn’t been reached. It’s pretty amazing how for sale just about every inch of international moral fiber is.

I'd agree with this if you are getting yourself into a school that is killer in rankings, and is going to get you an engineering-type degree, or if you know as an athlete you want to be a lawyer or an accountant. Otherwise, the return on investment on a US college education is pretty trash right now. I'm not saying it always has been, or it always will be that way, but colleges have become so egregiously profit-seeking, all but the very best have diluted their programs and the offerings into oblivion. Grade inflation is also rapidly doing away with much of the value of a college transcript as well. In a world where many of the highest paying jobs available don't even require college, and a growing number are that way, the sorts of personalities who are capable of getting themselves onto college sports teams are the ones who have the innate capabilities to get themselves into other good positions as well. If you are an aggressive self-starter, responsible, and dedicated, all of which are must-haves to be a college athlete, you don't need college. And the Ivy does give athletic scholarships, they just aren't allowed to call it that. The shape it takes is being admitted to the University with much lower grade standards and a comped education. Ivies all have enormous endowments, and they use them in this way to get around the scholarship situation.