Formally140

While I think your point about "psycho" behavior being subjective is valid. The point about bad behavior and straight up morally reprehensible behaviors being ignored because they're a "good" coach or wrestler shouldn't be ignored. but your point about appearances is valid. The longer I've been around the more I've noticed a trend of, irascible "mean" coaches running much more clean programs and actually cutting or disciplining bad behavior. The more preachier, "virtuous" I see a coach/program being, the more I find out about them doing the opposite. Not alway, but a trend

Wherever this discussion goes. Can we at least agree that brushing it off with generalities about "power" and other people isn't going to help?

The actual overall problem, with admitting that's there's actually a problem(s) in the wrestling community/world. Beyond individual situations is that. There are 2-3 unspoken rules/axioms that ALWAYS come into play whenever actually addressing any situation, (And by situation, it can be anything from inappropriate relationships, cheating, poaching etc. the "issue" and the severity can vary) comes into play 1. "That's just how it is at da high level, if you have a problem with it, it's "obviously" because you're a non competitive pussy who's not willing to do what it actually takes to win" a sub variation is "how could it be bad for the sport long term if my team or kid benefits??, huh, like f looking at the big picture" 2. "Yeah it's bad, but this going public will be a black eye for the sport so it's not worth it" 3. Someone is protected or it would drag someone who's not really at fault down too. OR if this gets revealed too many will go down. And I've seen multiple times that someone tries to share, and gets ignored or silenced. Or even loses coaching privileges. That's leaving aside the cases of safe sport doing nothing after interviewing victims with evidence. and as someone said on another thread, due to wanting access, the interior reporting isn't going to dig into what they heard at drinks with some coaches. And everything feeds back into just shoving down or excusing everything

The more things keel getting ignored, especially on the women's side. The more I suspect it'll eventually explode

What's been made officially public isn't actually the issue or what they're asking about

And the actual guilty parties are enjoying careers unaffected.. but hey what can ya do

I (and many other coaches) actively fight these things when build teams, but when you say anything. Or point out it's not "tough" or actually useful. That dad who quit after their first year, and might have quit because of it, says it's fine now and anyone who has a problem either it is "soft" yet those same people are "shocked" that college rooms have fist fights

Thank you for stating exactly why half this stuff doesn't get brought to light

Since people want to act like college wrestling isn't like what it actually is.. on my team, and several others i knew of first hand... coaches would tell dudes to break up with gfs and go live with teammate A over teammate B.. but hey Carl knew nottin

The longer I've been around, the more I appreciate 1. How fortunate I was to be where I was when I was introduced to the sport 2. the coaches with good results who don't cheat and acknowledge that pound for pound they're better coaches with "better resumes" but they weren't willing to be POS to "acquire" a kid to get those headline results.. or put up with.. questionable behavior.. to keep those athletes around. And that they're super competitive but understand some people will say they don't actually want to win because they don't want to be a POS 3. The more my antenna goes up when "preachyness" gets involved, my personal experience is that hypocrisy ratio is closer to 4-1 bad than good

I get I haven't gotten a quarter of the way through the thread.. but pretending this "culture" hasn't been growing and growing and growing in wrestling.. is goddamn naive or out of touch Yes, obviously there is an element of wait and see. But anyone shocked by this or actually expecting safesport or USA wrestling to intervene... and for all the people who say "why don't they name names more or whatever when things like this or coaches cheating, poaching and tolerating Starocci behavior happens there has been a culture of silence in wrestling about this stuff. because no one wants more college programs or funding cut. And in a weird way, loyalty to the health of the sport has overridden everything else about this stuff. And if people have the right friends, the behavior just continues. But people who have tried to sound the alarm, get ignored or silenced. And then everyone knows everyone on top of it. i just had a conversation with someone in the know about this earlier today. Regardless of the scandal, the same three reactions combine to perpetuate nothing being done about.. hazing, inappropriate behavior/relationships, steroids, poaching, etc 1. 10-20% - eh that just how it be at da high level, you just a naive pussy if you have a problem with it 2. 30-40% - eh nothing will actually punish them and it'll just cause me and mine problems and nothing will actually address it, so I'll just run my program clean 3. Rest, OMG how could this happen. "iT wOUlD hAvE BeEN RePORted" TLDR: you shouldn't be surprised at stories like this, and no one does anything because they are loyal to the sport

Does anyone familiar with "alleged" other things that have been going on think anything will happen?

I have my opinions. Knowing a lot more than most. But whether it was false in reality didn't reflect the verdict.. (unless something changed since 2016) and the old coaches "blog", made this particular issue something that UNC wrestling is going to have a bigger magnifying glass on it than other teams, also, I'm not disparaging the old coach for trying to protect his son. Even if it it (imo) was misguided. It probably made the situation worse. Though since several have talked about innocent until proven guilty. TR Foley immediately assuming he was guilty and stating so on his lil mailbag.. is a big part of me realizing he was just a grandstander for virtue points. All that aside. The main point remains. If AJ's "issue" had been something else or if it was same thing, different school. There may not have been the response from the school admin.. but from UNC.. this isn't shocking

For those unaware. UNC specifically UNC wrestling has had a very public past incident concerning sexual assault. A coach got fired (yes I'm aware the alleged incident took place away from UNC). Like it or not, that's gonna make scrutiny on the wrestling team higher and gives them less wiggle room. I am well aware that it was 10 years ago as well. But anyone who's worked with admin shouldn't be shocked that this happened. (I also won't be shocked if there's more behind them not taking AJ)

Bullying and hazing culture is usually in place for a while before any word gets out because it usually has to escalate

Anyone who knows anything about the other "non public" issues "allegedly" going on. (I'm talking multiple things in multiple places throughout the country). can probably tell you about how many times things have been reported. Or they were known and people found ways to explain/justify it. On top of safesport being a joke because (just what I know of) 1. Safesport interviewing multiple former athletes about a coach "behavior". ALL of them saying it happened. Even if it was embarrassing to admit it.. and the dude is apparently still certified and coaching, just laying low. 2. Coaches being suspended by USA wrestling for one flimsy procedural thing so they don't have to admit about the worse thing that "allegedly" happened. Then the coach is reinstated later. 3. Coaches leaving a college because of alleged inappropriate behavior and still being allowed to coach at final x with overwhelming evidence. If you actually start talking to people around the sport. Whether it's PEDs, inappropriate behavior, bullying, weight cutting cheating, transfers, etc. etc. etc... there may or may not be "evidence". Of the metaphorical fire there's a hella lot of smoke. but every time it comes up people want to blow it off. Or devolve like this discussion. My main point. Be glad the hazing is even getting discussed

I had very reliable sources telling me that 2 years ago Nebraska was offering money to SoCon kids to transfer..

Im beginning to be more fascinated by people only keeping the discussions about old school anabolics and ozempic even though multiple people have pointed out that there's way more drugs available and being used

You just described most of my team.. you'll be fine

There's multiple types of substances that do many things

thats not surprising at all. Roper and Sioredas (who were ironically rivals in college) are two the most respected technicians in the country

Roper has been a BIG part of the success at UNI. I really hope the panther train can keep rolling. I like swaub

The mentality will be to just survive first match. Then business as usual. I'm well aware of the minimizing recovery time aspect... I was a poster child for doing it the wrong way when I competed. It's why I'm not 100% opposed.. But if you're going to do mat side weigh ins. You might as well do them right. Pretending that most Schools/kids doing the bad cutting won't just treat it like a more annoying version of current rules if you do it once a day is just naive.

I get 50-70 from 900. There are still teams with coaches doing their best that will be affected negatively, again. I just want the discussion to be honest, not just discarding them as details

One mat side weigh in is just the same thing we're doing already, Just closer to competition. It won't prevent the things it's supposed to. If you're going to do mat side weigh ins to prevent weight cutting. Making them do multiple throughout the day is what will actually prevent it. And if that's done, there is obvious ramifications. Doing just one mat side weigh in gives you more problems and doesn't really actually help