Formally140

Did I say something to offend you..

It's easier to do mat side weigh ins with bigger gaps yea.. BUT the hs weight classes are not Random. There's a specific percentage gap (I forget the exact one) between them. Around 2012 they changed the weight classes to remove a middle weight and replaced it with an upper weight. NO ONE liked it unless they had a weirdly high amount of big guys. Multiple officials explained there had been lawsuits about the weight gap between 171 and 189. Additionally, bigger gaps = less weight classes equals less opportunities for athletes. and it isn't at all insane to imagine a kid downing a 32oz Gatorade. Eating. Then, despite being at their literal walking around weight... "missing weight" second round of a tournament

Thank you for the literature. But that doesn't actually mitigate my overall point. The discussion about weight management automatically goes to those extremes

A major contributing factor to the deaths of the wrestlers in the 90s was they were on creatine. that was impetus for the rules changes, that were much needed. my point was that any mention of anything involving weight management is automatically treated as directly equivalent to dumbass dangerous crap they did back in the day. Which is disingenuous. and again, two things can be true at once. I can be okay with the rule being implemented.. and also think an obvious set of consequences is that 1. more forfeits will occur. Especially in dual meets 2. Smaller schools will be disproportionately affected, irregardless of how hard a coach recruits or hustles to get kids out. Which exasperates the issues already going on. 3. I think people underestimate how much fluctuations will occur in weight between drinking and sweating. Bjj weight classes are usually much further apart than hs ones. If you spread out hs weight classes. If you spread out weight classes to emphasize being at walking around weight.. There's already been lawsuits in the past about weight class gaps.. it directly led to the weight class changes taking out 140 and putting 182 Again, these are all obvious, rational ramifications of implementing mat side weigh ins. Any actual discussion needs to be honest. The real problems are pretending these aren't real issues and the pretending any weight management is automatically 1990s style plastics running

A kid missing weight by .1 isn't the same as a coach not being able to fill a lineup because he couldn't fill 132 and 138 because two kids were around 135 and apparently It's too dangerous for one of them to eat clean and sweat a little. Then safely refuel. Again, I understand that even the slightest suggestion of weight management is automatically equivalent to college kids sweating over 10 pounds on creatine. So I'm well aware of "tHEy sHOunLDnt mAnAgE weight at all" argument. That ignores all context and subtlety. Again, I'm mostly on the "if it happens it happens". About whether or not they institute mat side weigh-ins. But pretending that it wouldn't lead to more forfeits, especially in dual meets, and smaller programs will get hurt more than big ones. My whole point is that people need to stop pretending that obvious ramifications won't happen. Besides, the ACTUAL issue with the current rules isn't that they don't work. It's that no one's willing to actually enforce on the teans blatantly cheating the hydration test or actually consistently enforce/audit things things like kids going up and down more than a couple weight classes. And it would be pretty easy to audit using the opc. *also, considering half the dudes at bjj tournaments are very openly on the gear. Yeah weight cutting isn't as big a deal when you have better strength and cardio not technically allowed in wrestling. Both sports have issues with PEDs but bjj they barely test if at all.

The forfeit issue isn't for tournaments

Those things aren't equivalent

I say the same thing every time this comes up. As long as we're honest that this will lead to increased amounts of forfeits. Go ahead and do it. but don't pretend it won't. People when discussing things/changes/issues for wrestling always pretend that the obvious consequences won't happen or who cares because I'm spending a bunch of money for my kid. Do I personally think mat side weigh ins really will help that much.. no. But there will be more forfeits

Are people really this naive

There's multiple types of PEDs... Fix didn't pop for "steroids". IIRCC. It was a cardio thing and a supplement that helped unnaturally retain muscle when cutting weight. Keeping this discussion just about 70s steroids is both incomplete and makes the discussion about "acne". Most of the PEDs for combat sports aren't necessarily pure "steroids" Again, none of this stuff is really that hard to find out. It's very much like what happened Arizona State* RTC a couple years back, that "kind" of "alledged" story isn't at all shocking to anyone who's been around some of the higher level stuff.. BUT, until enforcement and names are made official. It won't matter. *im not gonna get into the Arizona St stuff. My point is that the way the issues are handled inside of wrestling and the way people not in the loop react is identical

Several things can be true at once. 1. PED use is rampant at both hs and college. It's not just "steroids" in traditional sense. People really underestimate how much just even a little trt can help with being able to train at a higher intensity longer. My lifting buddies say that most modern gear is expensive and not always "steroids". Then add in the epo or other cardio ones. I've also been told that there's supplements that vastly help with doing better off the scale. So if the discussion is to be had.. it needs to start with talking PEDs instead of roofs. 2. it's hard to tell by just looking. So let's not do that. There's smell tests, when you see certain things. Especially if it's a whole team built the exact same way irregardless of body type. But I've seen that more in hs than college personally. 3. You can stop taking stuff up to a month before a competition and still get 90% of the benefits... 4. I've found discussions of this issue to be like a few other less than savory things in wrestling.. it doesn't take that much digging to find out or be told by very reliable people who or what is happening. But no one wants to really come out and say anything because of how interconnected everything is and how hard to prove things are. 5. Just like the other unsavory crap. Until names get thrown out by people willing to risk positions or burn bridges. It won't matter. Everyone even slightly connected will either know or have a pretty good idea and nothing will happen edit. Roids not roofs lol

Can you send me this ? The state of Illinois and city of Chicago dont keep "official" team tournament points. Or how you set it up ?

It sucks they have to share it but good for Lonnie and a non burg school winning

That's why I'm asking for a calculator thing lol. I know a 3rd place is 9 points by itself with 6 placers. pin is 2 pts etc im asking if there's an excel sheet or program to calculate the team points a kid scored getting 4th with 2 pins and one dec etc

Apologies if this should've been posted on hs forum. But I'd like to use it for my ncaa predictions too. Does anyone know of any spreadsheets that can calculate tournament points? like say what the kid who got 4th placed, and what the kid who got first doing it by hand is annoying thank you!

Again, acting like the gap hasn't gotten bigger and is contributing to making it less interesting to watch.. is just burying your head in the sand

Could those 3 or4 schools steal the mid tier teams kids by offering them $20,000 to transfer?.. on the floor at NCAAs. Did mid tier programs that developed that walk on into an AA.. have to spend their time stressing about someone swooping in and "now" wanting that kid? So instead of being able to celebrate program milestones and build on them.. they now just have to worry about getting outbid.. Again, acting like the gap hasn't gotten bigger is lying or being deliberately obtuse

I'm aware. But it's becoming immeasurably worse. Saying it hasn't is just pure ignorance

On top of all what everyone's said.. the way it's increasingly becoming so top heavy (for all the reasons). Makes it more boring.. when the same 3-4 schools just buy their titles. It makes the things that people love about wrestling, especially people/teams improving, showing what hard work can accomplish.. seem irrelevant.

Unfortunately this is probably beginning of new trend

What state do you live in

There are "valid" criticisms.. some.. but.. timing and phrasing is wrong. Several things can true at once. The wrestling world is so tiny and overly interconnected to the point making evaluations that aren't going out of their way to be nice get people up in arms throwing tizzy fits.. And it can also be true that 1. We underperformed and our match tactics need work. And we need to be more willing to evaluate the wrestling we are seeing, not getting mad at a match opinion because a wrestler was nice to someone at a camp. 2. Cael isn't perfect (leaving aside the poaching the last few years) and is a great coach.. 3. A "bad" Olympics is 3/4 medaling.. so far.. which is sooo much better than the mid 2000s... all can be true at once More importantly, these Olympics have had a weird vibe

There's already ref shortages and multiple organizations are trying to get away with reducing ref pay. This will for sure help the situation

I'm aware. It's one of the trends that has me reconsidering how much longer I want to be involved in this world honestly

Unfortunately, this is probably going to set a precedent. Enabling other nonsense and protecting of people who shouldn't be. I wonder how long it'll go on or if it'll actually get exposed