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Well yeah I think by definition it will do that, 197 too if you have 3 weight classes where there used to be 2. If you want the classes to be closer to international weights, I’d rather just change 184 to 189 or so, and 197 to 210, which would be basically in between 92 and 97 kg, and also give HS 215 lbers a better option.

Ok that’s a fair question. But technically, Brands can’t even make an attached wrestler wrestle if they refuse to. Making an unattached wrestler NOT wrestle is a good question that I don’t know the answer to. But I’m still betting that Minnow was “mistaken” by claiming Lee even wanted Ayala to MFF at all. I think Lee just didn’t want to wrestle and was likely planning to MFF himself. Alternate conspiracy theory (mostly joking): Brands made Lee wrestle because he wanted the Soldier Salute to seem like less of a low quality tournament?

Not sure if this was posted somewhere - Lee interview from after the tournament. https://www.hawkcentral.com/videos/sports/college/iowa/wrestling/2022/12/31/iowa-wrestler-spencer-lee-after-winning-soldier-salute-xtream-arena-coralville-ncaa-wrestling-result/10972957002/ Not too much info. Towards the beginning in talking about wrestling in this event at all he says “they pulled the trigger…well I pulled the trigger, I made the decision” He does comment that he “hasn’t wrestled much lately because he’s been hurt, but Drake was hurt too,” overall very complimentary of Ayala

Looks like Caffey didn’t officially get it until early this season

Some of the five year guys will definitely do it. That’s of course an asterisk but for ones that wrestled in 2020 they missed out on matches and 2021 was a shortened season. Perusing wrestlestat, Looks like Cam Caffey, Labriola, Lou Deprez, Mason Parris already have unless they don’t all count. Caffey might have even ended last season with 100 (again unless some of the wrestlestat ones don’t count). Ethan Smith could do it this year and he even has 40 losses not even counting his redshirt year. Sasso looks like a safe bet if he wrestles next year. Same with David Carr. O’Toole a good chance. Shane Griffith. Keckeisen. Maybe Trent Hidlay

Whatever you want to call it, it’s not uncommon. A 220 class in college is unnecessary

Spencer basically ruined Ayala’s chances to be a 4x AA by making him wrestle as a true freshman when he probably could have used a redshirt …somewhat joking

A true freshman 215 pounder just pretty much dominated a returning national finalist. This is just yet another example of “tweeners” having no issue with the weight differential against heavyweights.

Yeah. Would seem to fit the profile of “half-truths” from Minnow and would make more sense. Although it doesn’t really make sense in terms of how protective Brands typically is of him. You could probably argue it’s more safe to wrestle a teammate who likely won’t go after the knee or anything like that, but considering Lee supposedly said he didn’t want to wrestle, it’s an odd move. Cue the “Brands doesn’t care about his wrestlers’ health!” arguments, which could also cue the “Spencer Lee should go to NLWC!” arguments…

Meh. He also only won 15-5 against a true freshman with losses to Tristan Lujan, Jarrett Trombley, Trevor Mastrogiovanni and Liam Cronin.

I’m still having a hard time believing Lee wanted Ayala to forfeit, especially if it seems it wouldn’t have even counted. Is it possible Lee didn’t care who forfeited, and just didn’t want to wrestle, but Ayala did and for some godforesaken reason Brands said OK?

In other Soldier Salute news: Echemendia lost 4-3 to Rathjen who lost 7-4 to Murin. I think there were at least 5 Iowa guys in this bracket 2nd seed at 157 and NQ last year Andrew Cerniglia of Navy went 0-2 getting pinned twice Top seed at 174 and R12 last year Hayden Hastings of Wyoming got pinned by Lennox Wolak of Columbia in the semis Assad beat Bennett Berge in SV in the finals

Well his mom sure seems willing to share what she knows, might try messaging her on Facebook

I don’t think anyone would bitch about him MFF’ing to a teammate. If it was a non-teammate ranked in the top 10 or so sure

All of it IMO. But I could definitely see them not making him do it. And sorry all, I misread Minnow’s tweet. I thought he claimed Lee wanted a double MFF, but it claimed Lee wanted Ayala to MFF to him. I definitely agree with Ayala not wanting to do that.

Yeah I don’t have much issue with 4 wins beating 6 in a dual. 3 over 7 I would. I totally get the “they would have wrestled differently” argument, but I feel like for the most part that doesn’t usually come into play until the last few matches at most. Or is the argument that this scoring system would make the matches more exciting because guys would want to win by more? I’d understand that argument more than “the current scoring is confusing and arbitrary” Cornhole has “arbitrary” scoring too. And if we’re talking about confusion, I agree the scoring at NCAA’s would be a much bigger issue. But if the question is what can we do to get wrestling on TV more, I just think changing the dual meet scoring format would be pretty far down my priority list. Not to derail the thread but off the top of my head IMO all of the below would be more beneficial: 1. Get rid of singlets 2. Cauliflower ear (make guys wear headgear in practice) 3. 3-point takedown and/or pushout rule 4. Get rid of riding time - it encourages stalling and is also confusing to casual fans (IMO moreso than the scoring system) 5. Consistent stalling calls/make it actually a rule that top guy needs to work for a fall

I think the answer is he doesn’t, that’s why he has no gas tank

I think it was really only in the 2019-2020 season until Covid hit. Damn Covid

I could be wrong but I’m still not sure that’s true, but if so then the claim is he wanted Ayala to MFF to him then? Minnow is claiming Lee wanted a double MFF so it wouldn’t have counted for either

And I know a MFF is one match less he needed to wrestle. But I don’t see what the problem would have been if he MFF’ed to Ayala.

More than Minnow were saying he said “I’m done” after the semis, and while I’m not a professional lip reader, it definitely seems like (and his body language would agree) he says something to the effect of “he wanted it” here

But Lee said he didn’t want the match…

Have seen bits and pieces. 149 (Thomas over Parco) and 165 (Monday over Hamiti) were good. Also not sure if this was already mentioned but broadcasters said they talked to Kenny Monday who confirmed Quincy was planning to stay at 165 for the remainder of the season.

I don’t think so, but even if they did why would Lee care about Ayala’s match count during a redshirt year?

I will say it seems silly if it’s actually true (and it may not be) that Lee didn’t want Ayala to be able to take a FF. Lee is a 3x national champ, what’s wrong with letting Ayala be the Soldier Salute champ?