BAC

Yeah we're on the same page. I was thinking Jax places 1st-5th, Bo somewhere from R12 to as high as maybe 4th, and Miller can with a match or two, maybe R16. I don't think I'd give a match to anyone else, but that's still enough to place to 20. (Last year, 21 points would've been the cutoff... e.g. ASU was top 20 with one AA -- Schultz 3rd -- and Maryland was top 25, just outside the top 20, with Jaxon Smith taking 6th.)

Yeah, I favor McHenry, a 2x Cadet world champ in his own right, but I just can't convince myself it wouldn't be competitive. Helen's no stranger to wrestling men -- as a teen, she pinned the defending state champ at MD states -- and that was long before Helen was, well, Helen. McHenry has another year of eligibility (at Cal Baptist now?) so maybe it doesn't work, but I'd love to see a match with a dude who's legit but not so much stronger that it's a farce. Deshazer maybe? There's definitely not any women we can throw at Helen and have a competitive match, that's for sure.

Helen Maroulis v .... Kurt McHenry? Picking McHenry since he'd be a smaller 57kg, but maybe it's still too lopsided. Even so, it would be cool to have a good MvF match, and Helen's a good candidate since she's at a lighter weight. Trick is to find someone who's good/old enough that it doesn't seem like you're poking fun at the strength/gender gap, but also not someone who's going to just maul her. Would put some butts in the seats, that's for sure.

As of today, Flo's rankings have McCort's 3 as the top 3 P4P wrestlers in the country. Time will tell if they achieve the same level of accomplishment as, for example, the Davidson trio, but if you're evaluating "best 3" from the standpoint of how good they are while in high school, I think you have to put the McCort trio as #1. I'm not sure if another high school has ever had 3 #1 ranked guys at their weight at the same time (at least not based on fishbane's list), let alone the top 3 P4P. Honestly it wouldn't shock me if this McCort team (on the strength of these 3) placed in the top 20 as a team in NCAAs in March, if they were allowed to compete.

Cole Mirasola still has 4 years of eligibility. He beat out all these guys at U20s this past summer. That's a pretty good reason to not go to PSU if you're a top HWT recruit with hopes of being a 4 year starter. On top of that, with the logjam at 197 with Conner Mirasola and Josh Barr, it seems that Connor's main role the next 3 years is to serve as a backup for both Barr and his brother at HWT. That's a pretty solid backup. I doubt PSU is putting much effort into recruiting heavies this year, and probably not next year either. I suspect recruits see it the same way.

This is fair. You and Truzz make a good point that the win over Sujeet should be seen as a legit upset. I went back and looked at his recent results and realized I'd forgotten about a couple of Sujeet's wins. Respect.

My top 2 are Levi and Zahid. Zahid's improvement was really just jaw dropping. Not just the one sided win over Ghasempour, but the dominating win in the finals against the Japanese guy who had absolutely demolished him 2 years ago. Levi I had as a likely DNP. But he knocked off a world champ, and was just a hair away from a world title. I've been whining for months about how Dake should've been at 79kg until the Olympics, and while that may still be true, Levi definitely shut me up.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I wouldn't include Woods on this list at all, much less at/near the top. His bronze was unexpected, yes. But to me, the only thing surprising about Woods was his draw. Woods was maybe the 7th or 8th best wrestler there, but then when the draw came out, only one of the superior guys was on his side of the bracket, while the other bracket had the other 5 or 6 studs who are likely better than him. It was an extraordinarily fortunate draw that gave him a path to a bronze on Amouzad's coattails. To Woods' credit, he took full advantage of the gift that was given to him, wrestling to his full potential and avoiding any upsets. That's no small feat. But there's nothing I saw in his wrestling that showed me he's better than what I thought going into Worlds. If you draw that bracket 10 times, 9 out of the 10 times there's going to be more than one other stud in his side of the bracket and he doesn't medal. I see Woods as a Joe Colon or Brandon Eggum type guy... he unexpectedly got a shot at the world team and rode his draw to a medal, which is AWESOME, but the odds of him making another world team (let alone medaling again) are slim. Happy to have him prove me wrong.

Don't sleep on Adeline Gray either, who has 6 golds. Previously, a fair argument could be made to put Adeline ahead of Helen for the women's GOAT title. Even now, she's got one more gold than Helen. But Helen has an Olympic gold that Adeline lacks (over Yoshida to boot), and Helen's total medal haul is greater, including three Olympic medals to Adeline's one. For me, this most recent gold puts Helen ahead. But Adeline's a legend, and a great ambassador for the sport.

What an amazing, clutch win by Helen. Watching it, you just knew she was going to pull something out of her bag of tricks. US women's GOAT.

I said this in the other thread but Spencer looked unprepared to me -- as in, unprepared to wrestle high-caliber talent at his weight, since he hadn't gotten the practice reps in before. He doesn't have any training partners that are world-class talents at or near his weight, so he's not sharp. On top of that, he almost never competes overseas, so he's not getting many world-level looks that way either. He came in unready. A related factor is that his coaches are always trying to build up his confidence, telling him how great and unbeatable he is, and that on the rare occasions he loses it's because he "beat himself." But that just saps his incentive to improve, as I think that sense of inadequacy motivates him. Plus, it's not true anyway -- at least not on the world level, where the world's best will scout and beat him if he hasn't meticulously prepared for them, no matter how great Brands says he is. A final factor I'll throw out there, which is far more speculative, is I just don't see the joy. I don't mean that in the "Iowa only cares about winning while PSU has fun" sense. I mean that in the HEW sense. To me, he gives the impression of someone who's wrestling only because he's expected to, and feels obliged to. The positivity in his pre-worlds interviews seems forced. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right, then maybe bringing in better practice partners, competing more, or changing his scenery won't help. Maybe he needs to rediscover what made him love wrestling in the first place, whatever that is -- or if that ship's sailed, then move on to something that brings him more joy, whether inside or outside the sport.

Fun fact: Brooks's the one to take out Hidlay in the topside bracket at NCAAs all four years. Twice in the finals, twice in the semis. If Brooks never existed, Hidlay would be an NCAA legend.

Excluding retired wrestlers (e.g. Taylor), inactive wrestlers (e.g. Gable) and suspended wrestlers (e.g. Brooks), I'd have it: 1. Zahid 2. Dake 3. Snyder 4. Hidlay 5. Carr Next 5 is a mix of Mesenbrink, Lee, Vito, Haines, Starocci. Next 5 after that is a mix of Yianni, Woods, Duke, Jax, Blaze. Then 15-20 I'll go Parris, Mendez, Marstellar, Wyatt, Lilledahl.

That's pretty amazing.

Man, you guys just ran away with the world title, and it isn't particularly close.... and you're calling for the coach's head? Tough crowd! :]

Recall that Hidlay and Yazdani wrestled barely over a year ago, here. Going into that match, I was pretty high on Hidlay, and I was posting here saying that Hidlay would give him a competitive match. I still say it was more competitive than most thought it would be.... but the score didn't really bear out my prediction.

I'm surprised they didn't do a YOLO "fleeing the hold" challenge at the end. We've seen that call be made on a challenge, and the Greek dude definitely had his track shows on in the last 15-20 seconds.

Trent's "you have to be in a dark place to beat me" interview after the semis: Trent Hidlay Knows You'll Have To Go To A Dark Place To Survive 6 Minutes With Him On The Mat After the finals: Trent Hidlay After His 'Insane' Gold Medal Match

I wasn't aware Spencer doesn't scout his opponents, or that his coaches don't insist he do so as part of his training. If that's true, that's coaching malpractice. This isn't some dual against Iowa Central Community College.

Haruntunyan is super legit, no doubt. He was definitely one of the favorites for gold, and there was very little reason, on paper, to say Lee was better than him. Lee was hyped, the Armenian was not, and people overlooked him for no good reason. That part I agree with. That said, writing off Lee's loss by saying Haruntunyan is "just that amazingly good" isn't particularly convincing. Haruntunyan got pinned in the semis, and barely squeaked by RBY in the 3rd place match. Just a quarter-second more, and RBY would've been awarded the winning TD. Haruntunyan lost to Fix 10-0 in Fix's silver medal run of a few years ago, and lost at the Olympics to Abdullaev, who Spencer beat. I guess it's possible Haruntunyan was just a bad matchup for Lee, but I dunno. It's hard to look at Spencer's match against Haruntunyan, and how he got outwrestled in every position, and not conclude that this tournament's version of Spencer is worse than the Olympics version of him. And it's hard not to expect that trajectory will continue, or at least not reverse itself, if he/Brands doesn't make a change.

The Russian wasn't in a dark enough place to beat Trent.

Many of our top guys have other commitments -- either they're still in school, or they need to work (since they don't have funding) so they don't have time, or they need funds. Lee has none of those limitations. Also, some have excellent training situations where they are, so getting international competition is less important. Not the case with Lee. Keisuke Otoguro? The 74kg'er? Somehow I doubt he's much of a practice partner for Spencer. I think the younger brother Takuto visited briefly too, which is nice, but he was a 65kg'er back when he was competing, so I'm guessing it was mostly light sparring as he's probably pretty big for live goes. Both are true. No doubt he's had his share of injuries, and Iowa sure squeezed all they could get out of him collegiately. But if he's going to bring home gold, they need stop throwing cupcakes at him, and let him battle guys that can beat him. I sense he's treated as mentally fragile, too. But is he so fragile? This is a guy who's battled through injuries, wrestled on no ACLs and a bum shoulder, and hasn't ducked anyone. He's a warrior. So why this need to build up his confidence? I honestly think his low-ish confidence is part of the reason he's had such success, as he's constantly trying to prove himself. So it drives me nuts when Brands won't shut up in interviews about how he's the greatest wrestler ever. Listen to the beginning of the Harutyunyan match, and you hear Brands yapping about how Spencer's better than him in every position. Then he goes out and proceeds to get outwrestled by Harutyunyan in every position. Honestly, is it really necessary, or even helpful, to prop up Lee with all that BS? It's like you could hear all the air going out of the balloon when he got sored on, as reality set in. Maybe if he were thrown in the lion's den in practice every day with live goes with guys that can beat him, and he consistently came out on top, he'd *know* he's the best without having to be told. Maybe if he's told that some guys are better than him, so he needs to get better too, he'd be motivated to improved. Oh I dunno, I'm just thinking of who OSU would swap for Spencer for 6 months, since I'm trying to offer up options besides leaving Iowa City. Not sure who Wyatt really has to roll around with in Stillwater except Taylor, who isn't exactly a HWT, so maybe Wyatt would benefit from rolling around with Keuter a while. Dreshaun's a tough cat too. Wyatt can only tech-pin Doucet so many times before he needs a new look. Glad to hear. Including live goes? Last I knew, Drake's mom was salty that the Powers That Be wouldn't let Spencer practice with Drake, but that's a couple years ago. Drake's surely a better option than Cruz, though has he wrestled freestyle since Fargo? I sort of doubt Drake's going mimicking Harutyunyan in practice anytime soon. I'll take that.

My takeaway from watching him today is he needs better and more diverse practice partners. And he needs to compete more in general. In the Harutyunyan match, Spencer looked unprepared and flat-footed, almost like he miscalculated what his strength would enable him to get away with given (e.g. the first and last takedowns). He looked unprepared for the level of resistance he'd get on his shots, and seemed to either underestimate his opponent's pressure or he just wasn't accustomed to it. He seemed totally unaware that Harutyunyan laces the opposite direction. It didn't expose Spencer as inferior, just unready. When I first saw it, I thought he looked like a guy who was just getting the rust off after a long injury. After rewatching it, it occurred to me that he actually looked more like a guy who'd been roughing up low-level competition in the practice room, and hadn't been getting either the quality or variety of high-end looks you need going into worlds, where every match is high-caliber competition. Sadly, this jibes with what we know of his training situation. It seems like they have him all locked down in Iowa City, rolling around with mediocre college kids, focused on drilling and keeping Spencer's confidence up. It's like he thought that if he just does the stuff he uses to pin Dru Ayala and Joey Cruz all day, he'll be fine. (Drake's off-limits, last I knew.) It's embarrassing. What's more, from the Olympics till now, how many international tournaments has he been in? One? Come on man. Maybe instead of constantly telling him how great he is, Brands should get him some practice partners that can give him some of the looks he saw from today, and rough him up. Sharpen him with iron, not clay. Use those donor bucks to throw him into every international tournament you can find so he knows the field. Stop treating Spencer like he's this fragile vase, about to break at any moment. If Brands can't find someone to bring in who can push him, maybe do some sort of 6-month club swap, e.g. send him to Stillwater to roll around with Fix, RBY, Sakamoto, Figueroa, Spratley and Jax. Maybe OSU can send over Wyatt for 6 months to roll around with Dreshaun and Keuter. If Brands can't bring himself to extract his claws from his prized pupil, even for a few months, then I hope Spencer realizes that he needs a change of scenery if he's going to succeed. Let's hope he sits next to Zahid on the plane ride home, and Zahid can tell him all about it.

Day 2 thoughts. Lee: Tough to watch. It wasn't just that he lost, it's that the Armenian outwrestled him in about 6 straight positions. In most of them, Lee seemed to be caught flat-footed. I hate to sound like a hater but he needs to get out of Iowa City. He just has no practice partners there, and he's not getting the kinds of high-end looks that he needs to get if he's going to run the gamut at Worlds. It seems like the Brands are so worried about eroding his confidence that they have him practicing with cupcakes, and it showed today. Carr: I thought he looked excellent. He gave Valiev all he could handle, and obviously Valiev is one of the best in the world. Many criticized him for attacking Valiev late in the 2nd when all of Valiev's scoring was off counters, but I disagree. Carr scored on him before and can score again. He just needs to make sure he isn't predictable. The match against Sidakov tomorrow should be great. Between Carr and Mesenbrink, this weight is in good hands for the next quad. Haines: I thought I was going to have to go on my bi-weekly rant about Dake not coming down to 79kg where he belongs. But then what happens? Haines takes out the world champ and is in the finals. Welp. I confess I had a DNP penciled in here and I'm so happy to be wrong. Haines keeps great position and his defense is as good as ever, and is turning it on when he needs to. Finals vs the Greek should be great. Hidlay: I've been high on Hidlay a long time and super excited to see him get his shot here, and to see him truly make the most of it. He looks like a man possessed... like a like a guy suffering from roid rage, except without the roids. Chalk him up as the Guy I Want to Wrestle the Least. I think he has a great shot at gold. *** Jax: More of the same. Threw himself into the match and wrestled fearlessly. Got into some positions he wasn't quite ready for, but I loved watching him work his slide by. Tough ending, but very legit opponent. Zahid: I thought he was even more impressive in his gold medal match than against Ghasempour. He wrestled hard all match, with no sign of waning at the end. Compare this match to the tech he took at his hands just 2 years ago, and you can really see how far Zahid has come. Super excited for him as you just know this is a product of him deciding he needed to make a change if he was to reach his goals, and he made it. You reap what you sow.

Tough to top the Davidson trio. I like the Zalesky x2 + Davis triad too. Some tough Blair trios too. But the McCort trio is right there and I wouldn't be surprised the top them all. For all the fuss about Bo's recruitment, and how he was (for a while) the savior of Iowa wrestling, he may well be the third best of the three.