PSULou64

I know that the money doesn't come from the school and I know these programs have boosters but you so seem to think/know how much money is in the pot for each school. Please tell me exactly the figure each of these schools is working with? Before NIL you argue that programs were being directly benefited by this money, fine I'll agree, but now you're telling me that they are still supporting the programs and paying the athletes? And to how much? Year after year? I would just like proof of the vast sums of money you all talk about.

I'm not new and I'm not just "defending" Penn State. I'm more interested in facts than hypotheticals and truth than conjecture. I just think people should be more mindful of what they put out there especially if they are bismirching the integrity and character of coaches and wrestlers. I do find it hard to believe that any program has deep enough nil pockets to afford $500k on any single wrestler. Wrestling isn't a high revenue sport and when is all said and done it probably costs more to run these programs with coaches, travel, scholarships than they generate in income for the universities. Do you guys really think that there are enough private citizens, businesses and boosters putting up that kind of cash to bring in 1-2 million dollars for nil?

Until I see actual confirmation of it, which I haven't, I'm not going to worry about it. I don't think it makes sense for him or PSU given what can be seen from the outside perspective but there are certainly more details involved than those posted of the situation have privilege to. I just legitimately want to know what the "huge" nil numbers that are being thrown around by some if you actually are or are they just purely conjecture?

Does anyone actually have an actual figure, from any verifiable source, of the amount any wrestler has earned in nil money from any school? A lot of you throw out these statements that all of these guys are raking in huge sums of money to transfer, especially if they go to an Iowa, Ok St., Michigan or PSU but I'd love to see someone actual figures.

I would just like some clarification from some of you. When you use the term "poached" what exactly qualifies? If a wrestler for one team contacts the coaching staff or wrestler from another team and expresses interest does that count? I only ask because so many of you know all of the exact details of these situations, including his much nil money has been promised and how these events have unfolded, that you seemingly must be the negotiators between the parties involved! If you weren't then maybe you should keep your conjecture, assertions and outrage in check and let the events completely unfold before you vilify any program or coaching staff.

I agree with a lot of the ideas here at least in part. I really dislike that it's stalling if you are able to push a guy out even though he's fighting to stay in when no shot has been taken. In my mind that's not fleeing or backing out. I also think that like in the Caliendo/Messinbrink match, defending multiple takedown attempts and having "good" defense is really still stalling and should be called as such. From the top position you supposedly have to work for a turn but they didn't even pretend to make them do that guys like Ferrari, Buchanan and Cardenas were just riding. How is a bottom guy, who already is at the disadvantage, supposed to get out when the top guy is hip on hip and belly on back. All he has to do is wait and counter the bottom wrestler. That should be stalling. My biggest actual change would be no riding time point without a takedown or back points.

But if you push a guy out with no shot it's a stall and if you take half hearted shot in the last minute is a stall!

Sorry I thought I quoted it

That was a classless move

I'm not bashing individual wrestlers here not do i blame them for using the current system to their advantage but am I the only one not happy with the product we are currently seeing? Is this the style of wrestling we want to be working towards? Maybe I'm in the minority here but it just doesn't feel right.

It would seem that there are only 3 reasons not to the pull the shirt. 1. He can't beat the guy starting ahead of him. (Based upon what I've seen of them both this doesn't seem to be likely although maybe in the Iowa room things are different.) 2. He doesn't think he can beat Keck or CStar this year and would rather sit and wait till the weight class is clear and less challenging. (Possible but these guys generally are not looking to do anything but price the are the best and can beat anyone out there. Nothing would be more awesome for a young guy to beat a 4x and 1x in route to their own championship) 3. The coaches don't think he can beat Keck and CStar and think he doesn't give them the best chance to score more points and maybe the team national championship. (This would be my guess. I think he definitely scores more team points than Arnold for them and is definitely a podium contender.) Could he use more time to develop, especially in the bottom position, Absolutely, so could have Lilledahl at PSU this year but when you are the best guy at that weight in the room, give your team the best shot at a team title and getting on the podium and are hungry to be out there you convince your coaches.

At least I can say my feeling regarding Caliendo getting the major over Amine was justified. I also believe that they should pull Ferrari's redshirt. Maybe Arnold can go 174. Frankly I think he's probably a better option there anyway than Brands or Kennedy.

I'm not great at predictions and trying to go through the whole line up would probably just be bad but part of me thinks that Caliendo majors Amine. I think the constant attack rate poses a bonus point scenario there. Am I the only one who thinks that?

Angelo has one more match left on his red shirt. Where do they use it and why? The reason I ask is because Arnold's loss tonight makes me wonder how the rest of the season plays out.

You also have to remember these guys want to start right away. They want a chance to be in the mix as true freshmen. I'm not saying they wouldn't get a chance to complete at PSU for the job but to beat out a national champ, runner up, heck even an all American is a tall order for a true freshmen. Maybe they saw the log jam at the middle weights and the 2025 class and thought they'd have a better chance of cracking the line up somewhere else.

A couple of thoughts: The Brands/Iowa know that the best bet to beat Cstar is the first time. Look at his track record against guys over time (last year not withstanding as he was not close to 100%). I believe/think were looking for information from this match to help prepare for the Big Ten and NCAA tournament for Arnold, assuming he doesn't get handed another loss down the stretch, if he does I can see him lose the spot to Ferrari. I also think that Cael and CStar know this about Brands and probably had him hold back a bit. "Don't show everything you got" mentality. Maybe I'm giving everyone too much credit and I'm thinking chess and they're playing checkers but I think there was a lot more strategy to the whole thing, on both sides, then people are giving credit for.

There is a lack of understanding by most fans and the general public as well that goes along with this. Most of these schools with money making sports use that to offset all of the other sports that just lose money. Mostly football and basketball generate revenue based upon television contracts, not so much in attendance, concession revenue, etc. It has a net zero cost to the students in tuition. Turning around and paying out players on top of the costs that already exist to run the athletics programs will be an untenable position for these universities and colleges and will create vitriol between the athletes. At least now when you get a scholarship, at least in most cases, you as an athlete get access to better housing, better food, better tutors, physicians/trainers, travel and accomodations on top of an education at a free or reduced cost.

I agree, I think AB has a good chance to medal. Besides this is not '96, our wrestlers are better prepared for freestyle and the rules are more conducive to success now.

So my thoughts are that the portal can be good for a guy who is very good but can't crack the line up at his current school. It allows them more years to compete and potentially place at the NCAA tournament. Just as a PSU fan to see guys like Teske, Negron, Neville, Beard get their chance and get more than one year makes me happy. However, if you are a starter and haven't lost your head coach I have very mixed feelings about these guys moving on. It is bad for the smaller schools and those with less booster NIL money. Problem is I have no idea how to stop it. The NIL is really out of control and the NCAA has almost no way to put that genie back on the bottle.

As some pointed out Carr and MM were on the far side of the mat, the place was insanely loud and when MM looked at the score he was up still because the score operator was slow to get the Carr point up. I'm not saying there isn't some blame on the coaches but there is no way he hears them, even if they are screaming and since he can't see them either there is no way to get his attention.

I feel as Ayala is improving but I also feel like it's Lee doing that and not the Brands'. Most if their transfers are as good as they were last year but aren't better and Woods is definitely not a as good as he was.

I actually had to play back the the sequence trying to figure it out. I thought I had missed something because it didn't make sense to me.

I know I wouldn't take any bets on 125 outcomes. Everyone had looked great and then very beatable. Ayala imo had been very consistent and had no real bad losses. His problem is lack of offense which keeps him in close matches against guys that he will most often beat but will sometimes lose to. That could very well be the difference between him making the finals and not getting past the quarters. I really don't see Davis coming out of the top bracket. It's just packed with tough guys. I'm still just hoping for an AA out of him.

I'm not sure if by posting this you are saying he was a top recruit or wasn't one to be honest. I don't really consider being ranked 69th a "top recruit". It doesn't mean he was a slouch or didn't have a great high school career but im there wasn't really any hype around him.