uncle bernard

Remarkably quick to catch on to the joke for your standards. Proud of you!

Address this: "And even then, they've disobeyed direct orders. That's incontrovertible. If they disagree with the orders, they can go through the proper legal process to dispute that. They aren't allowed to just ignore them and proceed. That's a radical departure from civil norms that directly challenges the constitution."

Right back at ya

That's a fantastic personal standard for yourself, and one I whole-heartedly share. However, riots are a fact of life. We know what causes them. You can address them in two ways. Either by overwhelming force (what we usually do) or by addressing the root cause.

You did not show that and I showed you why, yet you are still making the same assertions.

Not all of them, but many of the arrests involve masked men in street clothes jumping out of unmarked vans without showing identification. I'm not sure how we're supposed to expect people to react in that situation.

And yet the "rule of law" gave your cherished president a direct order and he disobeyed it. And you do everything possible to talk your way around that contradiction. Most of the Conservatives on here argued against due process for immigrants, even though our Supreme Court clearly established that to be the law of the land. And those riots were instigated by bad police behavior. ICE has been deporting people its entire existence. The reason it faces so much resistance now is because they've been allowed to operate like a goon squad. People won't have it. If you don't want riots, you should be on my side. Hold the people we pay to maintain the order of this country to a higher standard. That's what they're paid to do. I just wish Conservatives were more practical. They focus so much on abstract ideals at the cost of actually addressing the things they claim to want to address. Don't want riots? Hold your police accountable. Don't like abortion? Teach kids about safe sex and make contraception easily accessible. Don't want war in the Middle East? Stop following the same strategies that created those wars. Don't want illegal immigration? Make it easier and/or feasible to immigrate legally. Want food that's not poison? Pass regulations that demand it. Want healthcare costs to go down? Let the government negotiate drug prices and let the government compete with the private market with single-payer healthcare. Nope, can't do any of that. It doesn't perfectly fit your idealistic principles. So instead, you'll continue to trade worse material results in return for your own moralistic purity.

They aren't identifying themselves to the people they're arresting.

Pol Pot was supported by the US against the Communists. We were his main source of power.

Yes, that's totally acceptable. That's not what's happening here. The fact you'd make that claim shows how warped your worldview is. People are pissed because they are rounding up people who, though are not legal residents, are positively contributing to society and and not committing crimes. And they're tearing apart families in the process. Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. Overstaying a VISA isn't even a criminal offense. It's as serious as a speeding ticket. If they commit an *actual crime,* something that millions of "law-abiding" Americans don't commit the equivalent of every single day, then deport them.

As I've said a million times on here, Conservatives LOVE authoritarianism. They yearn to see their cultural enemies get stomped by the state. Their issue with Communist governments was never about the authoritarianism. It was that authoritarianism was being used to enforce leftist ideology, not *their own* conservative ideology. That's why you never hear them mention guys like Pinochet when they refer to murderous authoritarian regimes. Pinochet was murdering people so he could enforce all the ideas they agree with. That's exactly what's happening here. In another context, they would obviously admit that this stuff is really evil. Hell, they say simply having children's books in schools that promote LGBTQ values is authoritarianism. But so long as the goons are doing this to enforce their own political desires, they not only turn a blind eye, they actively cheer them on.

If you knew how to read, you'd know that I acknowledged it's not federally required by law.

A conservative writer stating the obvious: "Masked ICE Agents Are a Danger to Both the Public and Themselves" https://reason.com/2025/06/13/masked-ice-agents-are-a-danger-to-both-the-public-and-themselves/ Allowing law enforcement agents to act with complete anonymity means allowing them to operate without effective oversight. Such cases clearly show why allowing officers—empowered to make arrests and potentially kill—to remain anonymous is injurious to both public safety and individual liberty. But masked agents also pose a danger to themselves. It's one thing to be approached by a phalanx of police officers, decked out in identical SWAT gear with badges and their agency's acronym emblazoned across the front. It's something else entirely to be swarmed by a group of masked men in street clothes with guns drawn. One could easily mistake them for a criminal gang and might potentially take deadly defensive action. Even if you support the mass arrest of undocumented immigrants, it's indefensible to deploy anonymous, unaccountable government agents to carry out that task. Worse, it carries the serious risk of an armed confrontation between law enforcement and well-meaning individuals. It's crazy how you guys feel the need to defend literally everything Trump does. You treat him like he's infallible. If you read your Bibles, you'd know he's not.

YES JESUS CHRIST There's a reason why most departments in this country have that as their policy (and it's actually the law in many places). It's good policy that builds trust with the public.

1) Is that even true? Or are illegal immigrants simply returning to prior practices of evading entry points because the legal process of asylum seeking is not being respected, so there's no point in even trying to enter through a legal port? Also possible it's a straight up lie given this administration's willingness to play fast and loose with facts. 2) I would rather have tons of illegal immigrants enter than a masked goon squad roaming the streets arresting suspected illegal immigrants, and sometimes legal ones too, causing huge community disturbances in the process. They don't commit crimes at high rates, they play an important role in the economy, and most of all, deserve their shot at a better life wherever they deem that to be. Come in, pay your taxes, be a good citizen, and you're A-okay in my book. If you break the law, off you go. Simple as that in my opinion.

They are being asked and are refusing to identify themselves. That's all over the news and a major reason why these protests kicked off.

not debunked actually

You can't say I'm most likely 0-6, then say it's a "Constitutional question that should be dealt with." And even then, they've disobeyed direct orders. That's incontrovertible. If they disagree with the orders, they can go through the proper legal process to dispute that. They aren't allowed to just ignore them and proceed. That's a radical departure from civil norms that directly challenges the constitution.

1) Yes, I have sympathy. Doxxing is wrong. No non-publicly available information should be revealed about those officers. 2) I suggest they do so according to the well-established norms of policing in this country, which means clearly identifiable uniforms, badge numbers, and faces. They should have to abide by court orders and habeas corpus rights. They should only be using force as an absolute last resort. People have been deported from this country for decades and decades. Trump still hasn't deported as many people as Barack Obama. Do you think it's possible that one reason there is such strong resistance to ICE right now is because they are behaving like an American Gestapo? This stuff scares people. We grow up learning about the evils of the SS and KGB. It's not surprising most of the public really dislikes the practices of an agency that, at the very least aesthetically, looks like those evils.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/6-times-trump-administration-clashed-opponents-court-orders/story?id=120846599 6 in here: 1) Deported 100 alleged gang members using Alien Enemies Act. Judge ordered the deportations be stopped. Order came when flight was still in the air. Trump admin first rushed the flight to try to beat the court order, then refused to turn the flight around once the order had been issued. 2) Kilmar Abrego Garcia - illegally deported despite court order (which Trump admin acknowledged) then declined to secure his release and return against the orders of the supreme court 3) Continuing to deport immigrants to third country not of their origin (El Salvador) after Judge issued a restraining order banning this practice until they had their due process right to raise concerns 4) Freezing federal funds and not dispersing to states despite clear court orders to do so 5) Blocking FEMA grants against direct court orders 6) Freezing foreign aid against direct court order

Just as a matter of class, you could try to hide your erection when you post stuff like this.

@Husker_Du @jross @mspart I'd really love your guys' views on this. Again, set aside the deportation issue. For the sake of discussion, I will grant that all illegal immigrants should be deported. Do you have any concerns about this kind of policing? Does it worry you at all? Do you think it's the most effective way to go about this?

Why are ICE agents allowed to do this. Unmarked vans. No badges. No uniform. Ski masks. Arresting people without displaying warrants. Is this an acceptable way to police in a free country? Set that aside. Is this a smart way to police in a free country? How long before an ICE agent gets shot by someone thinking they're being kidnapped? Isn't that exactly what the 2nd amendment is for? If you legally carried a gun for protection, and an unmarked van pulled up next to you, four guys in plain clothes and ski masks jump out and try to grab you, would you not fight back? Next thing you know, you have bullets flying in the streets at any given time, putting civilians, officers, and arrestees at risk. Set aside whether you support the deportations. Is this a good way to go about it? Does this not put innocent people in danger? Does it not erode trusts in law enforcement? Seems incredibly reckless to me.

Is he following the court orders? If not, then he is acting like a king and disregarding the constitution. (and the answer is no, he's repeatedly ignored court orders to reverse course on certain policies)

Probably because the entire incident is on camera with dozens of witnesses and he very clearly did not assault an ICE officer.