Nebraska vs Oklahoma State pt II

[Nak21]

1 hour ago, PNWfan said:

Matches like this are far too frequent in NCAA wrestling and the rules need to be modified to minimize it from happening. Even us die-hards cannot bear to watch it over and over again, whether it is in a dual meet or the NCAA finals (happened multiple times last season).

Scenario: Wrestler A & B wrestle scoreless 1st period, with little to no action and nobody taking any major risks. No stall calls given either way. Score, 0-0.

In 2nd period, Wrestler A wins the toss, defers and wrestler B chooses down. Wrestler B either gets quick escape or gets ridden out, depending how good they are getting off bottom. Score 0-0 (wrestler A has 2:00 riding time) or 1-0 (if wrestler B gets quick escape). 

In 3rd period, Wrestler B either tries to ride out to get point and win match or give up escape after ride time is secured. Final score 2-0 or 2-1.

This is exactly what happened in the Merrill/McDaniel match yesterday.. Fix the rules; I get there will always be guys who try to game the system, but there are tweaks that need to happen to improve the overall product. Occasionally, we get the "exciting" 1-1 match where nobody has taken risks, both wrestlers got their escapes, and we go to SV to settle things. SV usually involves minimal risk in the first 2 minutes and the match being decides by escapes and ride outs (see Antrell Taylor's match yesterday).

 

What do you do though? How can activity and scoring be incentivized to get more action? Or how can it be punished if neither guy is doing anything? Do we continue to play with scoring? Start stalling both guys off the mat, double DQs? I hate it too, but I have no idea what to do about it.

[Scouts Honor]

I guess I don't get what's not exciting?

let them wrestle.

We know what wrestling is. I was excited b/c it was my team wrestling.

many people say, how can that official get himself involved in the match so much. he is such a me person.

but then turn around and say we need to get the official involved in the match b/c it was boring.

 

same thing happened in football. lions vs. bears.

OPI on the last play of the game. clear cut call. cheating.

the announcer says: i really don't like the official making that call at that time.

WHAT?

 

[Scouts Honor]

23 hours ago, boconnell said:

Doucet was stalling by not finishing quick enough on the deep shot he took?  While the other guy was desperately trying to jump out of bounds?

This is exactly my point.  You only think it's stalling because he's winning.  If he's not winning and he's got a deep single but can't keep the other guy in bounds, you don't think it's stalling.  You want to call penalties on your perceptions of his intentions.  

neither guy moved for like 10 seconds.. no jumping no pulling

it was kind of funny

at one point ziola took doucets chin and moved it around..

 

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

neither guy moved for like 10 seconds.. no jumping no pulling

it was kind of funny

at one point ziola took doucets chin and moved it around..

 

Who had incentive to do something?

[Scouts Honor]

yes. lets make wrestling not wrestling.

there are many ways to skin the cat.

not everyone is MM, or whoever

even Kyle Dake wasn't always that exciting.

[Scouts Honor]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

Who had incentive to do something?

both guys.

not what im saying.

people were calling for stalling. both ways.

I was just clarifying what was happening.

it was funny.

Im done with the stalling calls. there is no consistency. we aren't going to solve it.

lets just wrestle.

[Scouts Honor]

btw the already did the ankle pass thing. it's called neutral danger

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Scouts Honor said:

 

Im done with the stalling calls. there is no consistency. we aren't going to solve it.

lets just wrestle.

I would agree we dont need new rules we need consistency.  

[Scouts Honor]

yes 

but humans are not consistent

[Husker]

3 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

yes 

but humans are not consistent

Great point. Humans are “consistently inconsistent” - which is my trivia team name on Tuesday nights. 

[boconnell]

3 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

yes 

but humans are not consistent

Yep.  This is why a guy can do nothing in the first period and nobody cares.  Then the same guy does nothing in the 3rd period and it's a crime that stalling wasn't called.  It's also why a guy can do nothing in a tie match and nobody cares, but if the same guy does nothing while winning, it's an embarrassment that is breaking the sport and keeping out imaginary new fans.  

Wrestling fans want refs to call matches based on some platonic ideal of wrestling, while also inserting themselves way beyond that when a match violates a vague sense of fair play and doesn't allow the guy who scored fewer points to come back.  There is no rule set that can accomplish that.  The current rule set probably does it equally as well as the past 5 rule sets, and I'm guessing the next 5 rule sets will do no better.  

[NotThatDave]

20 hours ago, Hillbilly Jim said:

So what is the story then at 149?  Are they rolling with Casey or is Jamison coming back this year?

FWIW, Tagen was in Lincoln with the team. And we know he's not taking Vega's spot at 141...

[NM1965]

Nebraska redeemed itself somewhat. OSU is the better team, but NU kept it reasonable. NU has settled in a bit since their poor showing against OSU at National duals. A few of OSU's guys looked flat to me. 

OH yeah, Ferrari is

Edited December 23, 2025 by NM1965

[NM1965]

Watching through the dual again. Poor Brock Hardy! Vega has a spine made of rubber, he may even give Mendez a run for his money. Minto is a tough dude! I think Facundo is an R12 guy at this time so his ranking was about right. if Doucet was a 4 time Oklahoma state champ then Oklahoma HWTs must suck! Doucet needs a lot more work. Ferrari ducking Doucet is a Beta-move. 

Nearly complete lack of offense from Ryder, Merrill, and Lockett. Ryder should've transferred to Iowa, he just locks and pushes. Merrill at least was able to ride the other guy, even if his offense stunk to high heaven. 

 

[Pinnacle]

6 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Ryder should've transferred to Iowa, he just locks and pushes. 

 

Does Ryder have a go to takedown? I haven't seen all of his matches. 

[lu1979]

1 hour ago, NM1965 said:

Watching through the dual again. Poor Brock Hardy! Vega has a spine made of rubber, he may even give Mendez a run for his money. Minto is a tough dude! I think Facundo is an R12 guy at this time so his ranking was about right. if Doucet was a 4 time Oklahoma state champ then Oklahoma HWTs must suck! Doucet needs a lot more work. Ferrari ducking Doucet is a Beta-move. 

Nearly complete lack of offense from Ryder, Merrill, and Lockett. Ryder should've transferred to Iowa, he just locks and pushes. Merrill at least was able to ride the other guy, even if his offense stunk to high heaven. 

 

Doucet is a good heavyweight - he will be in the mix to AA this year - I am not sure if he will break through but he has definitely improved from where he was 2 years ago. 

[happyvalet]

2 hours ago, NM1965 said:

Minto is a tough dude! I think Facundo is an R12 guy at this time so his ranking was about right. 

He split with #6 and that's his worst loss... Flo has him #7. I don't know if he's 7th best but that's more justifiable than Intermat having him #16 (#13 now). 

[GV4444]

Imagine if the match were on the line at 285.  Would AJ be as chirpy?  Ziola showed a lot of heart.  Van Dee was coming off of strep throat and gutted out an awesome victory.  Lockett was also sick.   Mr. Chirpy was apparently dinged up a bit.  He doesn't seem like he fits the Nebraska persona.  

Curious, how many days does it take Manning to get his voice back after a dual?   Was the latest brick through ever by Manning?   Has he ever thrown one during introductions?

 

[NM1965]

3 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

 

Does Ryder have a go to takedown? I haven't seen all of his matches. 

I've seen him trying shrugs a lot. He's a lot like Trent Hidlay, but less offensive. 

[NM1965]

1 hour ago, happyvalet said:

He split with #6 and that's his worst loss... Flo has him #7. I don't know if he's 7th best but that's more justifiable than Intermat having him #16 (#13 now). 

Yeah, he seems pretty tough. I could easily see him being top 6. 

[dragit]

10 minutes ago, GV4444 said:

Imagine if the match were on the line at 285.  Would AJ be as chirpy?  Ziola showed a lot of heart.  Van Dee was coming off of strep throat and gutted out an awesome victory.  Lockett was also sick.   Mr. Chirpy was apparently dinged up a bit.  He doesn't seem like he fits the Nebraska persona.  

Curious, how many days does it take Manning to get his voice back after a dual?   Was the latest brick through ever by Manning?   Has he ever thrown one during introductions?

 

Good stuff - Bob Dole emoji. 

He better have been plenty dinged up to have been ruled out while the match was still on the line.  That was pretty weird particularly because he had so recently wrestled. This is the wrestling thing we see a lot that's frustrating - in a major sport there would have been more demand to know why a former national champ with no known injury (correct me if I’m wrong) and having recently competed was cheering and not wrestling in front of a big crowd on national TV.

[happyvalet]

10 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Yeah, he seems pretty tough. I could easily see him being top 6. 

He's gotta figure out how to finish shots on the top guys. He gets in deep but can't convert 

[NM1965]

21 minutes ago, happyvalet said:

He's gotta figure out how to finish shots on the top guys. He gets in deep but can't convert 

He's a pretty good scrambler, plus he looks pretty strong. 

[El Luchador]

Taylor should have been hit with stalling. He constantly back away from contact and was waiting to catch Robideau moving forward. This is text book stall. Must have been an East Coast ref. 

 

 

[Scouts Honor]

19 hours ago, boconnell said:

Yep.  This is why a guy can do nothing in the first period and nobody cares.  Then the same guy does nothing in the 3rd period and it's a crime that stalling wasn't called.  It's also why a guy can do nothing in a tie match and nobody cares, but if the same guy does nothing while winning, it's an embarrassment that is breaking the sport and keeping out imaginary new fans.  

Wrestling fans want refs to call matches based on some platonic ideal of wrestling, while also inserting themselves way beyond that when a match violates a vague sense of fair play and doesn't allow the guy who scored fewer points to come back.  There is no rule set that can accomplish that.  The current rule set probably does it equally as well as the past 5 rule sets, and I'm guessing the next 5 rule sets will do no better.  

i agree. and more often than not, it's not the boredom or ruining the sport.. 

it's their guy didn't win.

his stalling wasn't rewarded